kelbahi

Hi, Looking for any pointers for the problem my Indy has been trying to chase down.
I've searched the forums and found some dated threads, also have contacted EVMOS (my Indy has contacted EVMOS as well working at a more detailed level) Running out of ideas.

-I have a stage 2 tune and continue to get a CEL with P1109. To date we have replaced the MAF, cleaned the intake filter, Pressure tested the vacuum systems. Not sure where to go to next. Car runs for about 100miles then throws a CEL with P1109. I'm not experiencing any drivability issues, I'd just like to see the code go away.

Wondering if anyone else has (recently) gone through this with the EVMOS Stage 2 tune.

wross996tt

Can you flash it back to stock? Do you have the EVOMs intake installed?

kelbahi

Yup, I have the EMOS intake. Here is the list of mods
- EVOMSit Stage 2 ECU Tune
- AWE Tuning Exhaust System
- EVOMS 1.2 Bar wastegates
- EVOMS Diverter Valves
- EVOMS Hitachi Maf
- EVOMS V-Flow Air Intake

I was considering going back to stock, but from what I understand I'd need to do some h/w swaps as well, and it feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Another suggesting I had was to get a COBB accessport and a customized tune.

I purchased the car with these mods, and don't have any of the OEM parts.

Macster

P1109: Input variables, charge measurement - above limit.

Possible fault cause
- Heavily soiled throttle
- Throttle adjusting unit faulty
- Mass air flow sensor faulty

I'd start with the throttle (body). First check all electrical connections. Carefully disconnect then connect each (there may be only one) connector. The idea is that during the installation of the mods the connector wasn't secured or surface corrosion has formed and is interfering with the throttle signaling. The disconnect and connect removest this surface corrosion and improves the electrical connections.

Handle the connector with care. The wiring harness is getting on in years and you don't want to crack the insulation or break a wire.

Afterwards perform an E-Gas calibration. With your foot off the gas pedal turn the key on and leave on at least 60 seconds. Afterwards turn the key off and leave off for at least 10 seconds. Next time you start the engine the calibration is complete.

While the key is on you might hear some noises which I think is the throttle butterfly valve being worked.

If the above doesn't help then the soiled throttle has to be considered. This normally doesn't or shouldn't get dirty but if the engine suffers from excessive blow-by (and turbo-charged engines usually do as a result of them being turbo-charged) or if the engine is overfilled with oil or if the oil is run too long and becomes heavily contaminated and thus more prone to foaming and creating excessive amounts of oil vapor or if the turbo seals are leaking and letting oil into the intake system, in any of these cases then, the throttle body can become excessively soiled.

Handle the unit with care. Drop it and you've ruined it. Do not force the throttle plate open or closed. It may not be closed all the way but this is normal.

I've never cleaned the throttle body of my Turbo but I cleaned the one from my Boxster.

I use a residue free cleaner -- you can buy a "throttle body" cleaner I think which should be ok. Just spray the unit down and let air dry.

Be sure the o-ring or seal is good when you go to re-install the throttle body. You might have a spare o-ring or seal on hand just in case.

Do not over-tighten the fasteners but do tighten them properly.

If the above doesn't help the MAF has to be then considered. I'll leave this coverage until a later time. I'll just point out a mod'd Turbo engine requires more air and this works the MAF harder so a shorter MAF life is a possible trade off one makes when mod'ing his Turbo engine.

Might mention too this includes spark plug life and O2 sensor life. You want to be sure these are all in good shape and if they have some miles on them consider replacing them. Might mention when my stock Turbo manifested an O2 sensor error I had all 4 orignal sensors replaced and the engine perked up some from the installation of the new sensors. They do degrade even if they don't get bad enough to trigger a CEL.

Fishey

Evoms intake is a known problem child when it comes to MAFs

Kevin

Do you have any datalogs? PIWIS logs? Ask your mechanic to show you logs? The PIWIS will datalog, the Durametric will datalog.

1.2 bar wastegates on Stock K16's??? Or do you have larger turbochargers.

Overboosting and shutting down the throttlebody?

Throttlebody sluggish?

This is like flying in fog with no instruments.

kelbahi

Thanks - I'll follow up on the data logs. I don't know about the Turbo's as I purchased the car with the mods.

Kevin

Did you have a pre purchase inspection done prior to buying the car?

kelbahi

yup.

kc996

Hey Kelbahi,

I bought my 996 Turbo 14 months ago with the EVMOS Stage III which has your mods plus a couple more. Had a vacuum leak earlier but once fixed and changed the plugs (it was time) zero issues, no CEL. Probably not super helpful but I wanted you to know there are TTs out there with similar mods not experiencing issues. Best of luck!
KC

kelbahi

Thanks kc996,
Like I said, I'm hoping to get to the bottom of this without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

EVOMS

He's running the Hitachi MAF which is nearly bullet proof with our intake. P1109 with the Hitachi MAF is an air leak 95% of the time.

My recommendation would be to smoke test the complete intake tract (including turbo inlet ducts), and also separate out the portion of the vacuum system 'hidden' from the plenum behind check valves, and make sure it holds vacuum. Bad check valves, blown hoses, and leaky diverter valves (upper chamber/nipple) can cause leaks to develop there that will not be seen by a pressure test.

Also have them check the exhaust for leaks, particularly in the exhaust manifolds and between the turbos and cats. Leaks there will cause issues similar to an intake air leak.

Sam

RngTrtl

Wouldnt that throw a code for the O2 sensors and not the 1109 code?

EVOMS

Often, but not always. I've seen weird stuff on cars with old headers that have crushed and cracked primaries from hitting speed bumps/low drive ways.

Sam

kelbahi

posting a follow up for those that may be interested

I decided to dig into this myself rather than making repeated attempts to get someone else to solve the problem.

Here is what I did - most of it does not relate directly to my CEL investigation.

1. Got a Durametric kit. Hooked up the Durametric, monitored the FRA and RKAT adaption ranges for both bank 1 and 2. Noted RKAT range for both was > +4.5% Did some research, did not find a ton of info. The following was the best write up I found. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/boxst...g-numbers.html
Happy to be educated more in this area.

1. Swapped my AWE exhaust for a stock exhaust - I did this as my kids thought it was too loud in the back. When I swapped the exhaust I noticed the post cat o2 sensors were cross threaded and not really holding well. I replaced these sensors - they now fit properly.

2. I replaced the plugs and coils. Not motivated by the CEL issue, I just did not know when were last done. The car has ~105K km on it.

3. I got part way through doing a pressure test as described here . In the process, I re+re’d the left and right turbo inlets (not to mention the intercoolers when I did the coils.) I ran out of weekend before completing this, so I put everything back together with plans to try again the next weekend.

4. My battery died. I put in a new battery. The CEL codes were clear when I started the car.

I drove the car about 350 km during the week and did not see the CEL come back. I have driven another 300km since. The problem seems to be gone. Scanned with my Durametric - no issues. I rechecked the RKAT, both banks should show a trim level hovering around +3%.

While I don’t know exactly what I did that solved the issue, I’m glad it’s gone. Thanks to Sam Stone @ EVMOS for answering questions, the folks at http://www.warehouse33auto.com for the parts at a decent price, and everyone else on and offline for offering suggestions.

One remaining questions I had - is there any good information on understanding the various parameters and values monitored by the Durametric? If so where can I find this information? my googling has not turned up much.
Thanks,
/Kel