mmporsche

I need to make a decision on a car purchase tonight and just learned of the following per dealer:

Number of ignitions, range 1 33111 895.8 h
Number of ignitions, range 2 449 864.6 h

Car is 2004 TT with 25K miles in very nice condition top to bottom (new tires, brake pads, 30K service) CPO from Porsche.

What do these numbers say about this car's life? Are they going to affect the value when i resell down the road or nothing to worry about?

No HTwo O

A 996 only show 2 over-rev ranges, unlike the 987/997 series that have 6.

What are the hours on the car now?

mmporsche

901.2

fly2low

The type ones come from hitting the rev limiter ( a lot) with a dual mass flywheel. Engine revs keep climbing from momentum when you engage the clutch. I have put this many on a car
I forget the exact cut-off, but type 1 are 500-1000 over the reve limiter
Type twos are anything above this, 1001-????.
It would bother me that these are relatively recent, but it is a low number

fly2low

If the CPO issued is new, you have a full two years, the dealer is saying this is no big deal. Just don't lose this record

mmporsche

I just spoke to a mechanic and received some clarification behind the numbers above. The 33,111 translates into 5,518 engine turns (divided by 6 cylinders). Basically, he said during 901 hours the car has spent one minute at 5,518 rpms - Type 1. The second number shows about one or at most two seconds of an over rev, type 2, in the life of the car. This is possible a mechanical over rev but he said if any of the valves were damaged it would be misfiring badly due to high-compression in the motor.

So to me, it doesn't sound like too big of an issue but I am curious how these numbers stack-up to others experience on the board. They are asking top of the market for the car so I need data to reduce the price if warranted.

No HTwo O

Michael, that dealership is feeding you a bunch of BS. That car has seen some MAJOR RPM's, not just 5,518 rpms:

mmporsche

That was just an example to put a perspective on the amount of time the car has spent above redline. Reduce the time and increase the RPMs. So maybe it spent a total of 55 seconds at 7,000 RPMs. Not sure I am explaining it clearly.

Again, I am trying to understand how this may compare to other cars and possible resale value. The Type 1s don't seem very significant. The 1 or 2 second over rev above 7,250 may be another issue????

adam_

1. I am not that concerned with type 1s, in general, but the last one was only 6 hours ago. And 33000 of them. (When I bought mine there were 0 type 2s and 18 type 1s...)

2. The type 2s are over 7250 RPM. Period. Could be 7251 or could be 8900...dunno

3. 901-864=36 hours ago...about 1000 miles since the LAST type 2.

4. It is absolutely NOT true that if there was damage it would be present. Likely perhaps but you could have a bent rod and never really know it. Just MO. It has done 1000 miles or 36 hours since then, so that is good- but not proof positive.

5. Was this car flashed?

6. Ask the dealer to put IN WRITING that THEY will personally back the warranty if PCNA refuses due to the abuse. PCNA can deny you no matter WHAT the dealer says. PCNA is not bound by anything assurances from the dealer. They are saying "its fine" so say "Cool, money where your mouth is, please"
(I'll bet you hear crickets...)

If this was not a top dollar, "pristine Porsche dealer" car, I'd proceed with care...but they cannot have it both ways- price and blemishes.

No HTwo O

"Top of the market" cars don't have 33,000 over revs in range #1. Not to mention the 449 in range #2.

mmporsche

Thank you everyone for the valuable advice. I have to admit I am getting really frustrated trying to locate a nice car. I have been looking diligently for 2 months. Last week I was all set on an '01 TT but the PPI identified $7K plus in repairs needed and a rough life - car was $43.5K with 46K miles. So I decided to step-up another $20K+ and I am still finding significant issues. This car is at a very reputable Porsche dealer. Everyone keeps posting about how they found a great car for $45K to $50K but I have scoured the internet and local dealers and cannot find anything. Am I looking in the wrong places?

Kyle1058

If the car has 33000 over revs, then you are right that the entire motor has turned over 5500 times. If my logic is right (which isnt alwaysnthe case), at 7000 rpm, that tells me the car has gone past redline .8 minutes, or 47 seconds. Imagine burying your foot in it, holding it for 47 seconds at 7 grand...no way would I touch that car.

I've been looking for a while myself, and there is no way Id buy a car with that many over revs....especially not a top dollar one.

ohioboxster

PM'd you OP

adam_

I looked for 8 months. Purchased a 2004 X50 with 17k miles...FIVE years ago. $77k

Original owner, perfect. Dealers were offering him really low trade values, and he really didn't know how to market the car well...I was a prepared buyer ready to buy when the deal came around. I looked at 7 other cars seriously and probably hundreds in total. I'd sweep all the online sources daily for 'fresh meat'. I contacted one car broker to help out. He'd email me 'finds' and I'd give him the cars' history.... he finally said "You want a job?"

Many people do not have that tolerance and patience. Spring is coming, you want your car.... this forces you to make compromises. No way around that- price or condition.

The other hard thing was watching cars with sellers with no clue as to the market come into play...you cannot 'convinvce' a seller he is asking too much, only time will lead to corrections. Maybe. Or the car gets scooped up by someone who doesnt care about 5, 10k... so be it.

IMO I really want to buy from an individual owner, preferably a first owner. Any dealer- reputable or not (that a joke, really)- has to pay the last owner less than what you are paying...so you just need to find these guys FIRST. Easy to say, hard to do.

8 months....I know, kindof stressful too.

Good Luck

A

wross996tt

This is a likely incorrect assessment. The hours recorded is the last incident....there is no way to tell what actually happened at that incident unless you have a complete history (and therefore can see changes to the over rev conditions over time). It is more likely the car is hitting the rev 1 in spirited driving over time not all at once. In any case 440 rev 2s is minor IMHO.