Dharn55

On my 2000 C4 Cab the top stopped opening yesterday. The clam shell opens and the latch at the top of the windshield opens and then it stops. You can hear some clicking. When I run my Durametric it shows a fault code, 5 - maximum time exceeded. If I clear this error it re-appears.

A little background on this. Yesterday morning I used the RemoteTop on the car to open the top and it opened about 6" then stopped. This had happened a couple of time recently. When I got in the car and used the dash switch the top opened all the way. We went to the farmers market and used the dash switch, with the one touch option using a SmartTop module and it closed fine. When we returned to the car and used the RemoteTop/Key to open the top only the clam shell raised the the windshield latch opened and nothing else. then tried the dash switch with the same result. Top closes all the way with the key or dash switch but does not open.

This car has a SmartTop that was installed 10+ years ago. Also a RemoteTop that was installed 6+ years ago, the original style without the separate power feed, which failed about 2 years ago and was repalced with the newer version that has the separate power feed. This worked well until a month or so ago when the top started opening almost all the way and would stop just short of closing the clam shell. I spoke to Mods4cars and they had me reset the timing by starting the opening procedure, pushing the windshield micro switch withing 8 seconds of starting, and pushing it again one the top was down and before the windows raised. This seemed to fix the problem. Also the top was replaced 3 months ago but has worked fine up until now.

I tried to recalibrate the the top with the Durametric and nothing would happen, I had tried this in the past. I removed the RemoteTop and the problem still existed. Then I removed the SmartTop module and the problem still existed.

But here is something interesting, when the SmartTop module was removed the Durametric recalibration worked!! AT least it started, but stopped at the same point, Clam Shell Open and windshield patch open, then stops. Same error code shows up, max time exceeded. There are no error codes for bad micro switches.

I have check the oil level, it was slightly low, and refilled it. No leaks or anything else. Checked micro switches for the clam Shell, top mounted latch assembly, and windshield assembly and all seem to work, although I have not ohmed them.

It seems that once the clam shell is opened and the latch opens, there is come clicking but the pump doe not start and the top does not move.

Looking for suggestions on what to look for. I know this is a little long but I wanted to give as much information as possible.

Thanks

dcdrechsel

I would check the clamshell potentiometer setting - if it's off the top drive motor won't function ( at least it wouldn't on my 1999 Cab ) .

dcdrechsel

The shop manual has a detailed procedure for resetting the top latch timing which is mechanical and requires removal of the top latch and a 9 volt battery .I had to do both the clamshell and the top latch to get mine working .I am not sure what the durametric software actually does on calibration ,but the diagnostics were a big help .

Hurdigurdiman

I only have 2 suggestions for you to check Doug. Car Battery and the actual fold of the back window. My reason for suggesting the window fold is for the last 5 years I had problems with the top not opening or closing correctly because of the correct fold. Stand outside the car, use the key in the door method up to half way then tuck that first fold with your right arm then complete the opening of the top. leave it like that so the top learns the correct way (if you know what I mean). This year is the first time my top has worked every time (so far). Other than that, I have nothing for you to try. BTW I only had to hold the fold one time on closing it. It remained correctly folded for the winter period and has worked flawlessly since removing the hard top and opening the soft top in spring.

Dharn55

Dcdreschel

Well I removed the top latches, checked the micros witches and reset the latch. That did nothing. Then I removed the clamshell drive motor and tried to reset the potentiometer. The manual says to remove the potentiometer from the motor but I could not get it off the motor. I did finally get the potentiometer reset to the 6.2K but now the motor runs, either with a 9v battery or in the car, moving the toothed shaft but not spinning the square shaft of the potentiometer which is what drives the clamshell mechanism. So something is screwed up.

I did use a 9v battery to test the pump and it works, but still doesn't run on the car power.


Any help would be appreciated.

Dharn55

OK, I made a little progress. I finally got the potentiometer off the clamshell drive, reverse threads on the bolt that holds is on which thread into the shaft driven by the motor. When I had been turning this bolt it had drawn the shaft out of the motor gear (hard to explain exactly how this thing works) which was why the motor was not engaging the drive shaft. So now the potentiometer is set, the motor is back on the drive mechanism, the mechanism is reinstalled and the clam shell goes up and down again.

The top latch at the windshield is reset and I check one of the microswitches in it and it works, and I checked the microswitch in the windshield header and it works.

Now the bummer. I am back to where I started from. The clamshell raises, the top unlatches at the windshield, but the hydraulics don't start operating. Bummer! TheRe is one difference though. Before the clamshell was opening up all the way before the top latch started, now they are operating simultaneously.

There are two more microswitches in the latch mechanism at the windshield, I think I will test them tomorrow. I tested the hydraulic pump with a 9v battery and it seems to work. I am wondering if the control module has failed in someway, or maybe a relay has gone bad. I will also try a calibration with the Durometric and check the fault codes.

Again, any helpful suggestions?

dcdrechsel

Ug...........does the hydraulic pump run at all ? When I had a similar problem the pump would momentarily run but not move anything . I think you still have a timeout issue which the durametric might verify .Are the flaps working ? Also the top position potentiometer might need a quick check -which is really a stretch .I would definitely try the durametric calibration routine past that I am clueless .
Dave

Dharn55

The pump does not run at all. I did check it with a 9v battery and that caused it to run a bit. I wanted to check and see if the pump ran at all or had failed. I will run the Durametric again tomorrow, check fault codes and try the calibration. As I said before it as showing a maximum time exceed fault and when I would clear it the next time I tried the top it came back. And with the calibration it opened the clamshell and the latch and the stopped. It dos not seem to show faults such as a bad microswitch. Bummer. I have a buddy with the same car and may try to swap the controller to see if that is the problem, but all this takes time. I read one thread where an owner took it to the dealer and they tried a recalibration, could not get it to work and said it would be hourly for them to go through it and check component by component. But if the tech has experience with tops it might go quicker than my working on it.

We are supposed to drive up to Toronto Tuesday afternoon and wanted to be able to put the top down. Not much time between now and then. Last Saturday it was working and the just quit.

Dharn55

OK, I think I have a solution. I had forgotten that I had the Aftersales Training Manuals for the car. Just read through the section on the convertible tops. It give great details and a step by step description of the entire sequence of the top systems. It tells how each microswitch controls each step and how each motor is controlled, how if one step is not completed the next will not complete. A great resource. Based on this I am guessing that one of the side flap microswitches that show the flaps in the bottom position has malfunctioned or come loose. If these microswitches don't show the flaps in the bottom position then the top motor/hydraulics won't operate.

Keeping my fingers crossed that this will be the problem. I test each one and if one is not working simulate it being I the right position. If the top motor starts to work I will know that is the problem. Then if a local dealer has one or one can be sent overnight from Atlanta I will have a working top for our trip.

I will also be able to help others if they have problems.

By the way i have the Service Manuals and these training manuals in PDF format and I am always willing to share them (DropBox) if anyone is interested. Lots of peop,e have the Service Manuals but these After Sales Teaining Manuals are fairly rare outside of dealers and have lots of details not found in the Service Manuals..

tcc

thanks Doug, watching this closely since i'm sure it'll happen to me.

Water Hound

Good luck with your top and I hope you can fix in time for the drive to the Big Smoke. I'm reading your thread in fear of this happening to me down the road. The manuals would be a great resource to have should the unthinkable happen and I'd appreciate a copy if you are willing to share. If nothing else it would be interesting to have a technical breakdown of how all the pieces function. Wish I could add anything of substance technically to your troubles but you'll have to settle on my best wishes for success.

dcdrechsel

I think you found it .Pin 10 and 8 0n control unit should be grounded for top down .

Dharn55

So I checked the microswitches on the flaps and they were working, at least at the switches and connectors so that was not the issue. I also took off the top position potentiometer and checked its values which seem to be right. So now I have checked all 9 microswitches, checked the potentiometers, reset the the latch, and still the same problem. Clamshell opens, latch opens but the top does not open. I used a multimeter on the leads to the pump motor and there is no voltage going to it. Checked it with the Durameter again and it shows the same timeout fault. If I clear it and try the top the fault registers again. Did the calibration again and it stops at the same place. There is a click when the clamshell is fully open and another a few seconds later. This is the timeout. If the top does not move after a few seconds it times out.

Tomorrow I am going to my buddy's house and I am going to swap out his control module for mine, I know his works. If that solves the problem I know the control unit has a fault and can replace it. If that does not solve the problem I am not sure what I will try next. There is a possibility that a ground has gone bad, but those can be a real pain to chase down.

pesuazo

Have you checked the fuse that feeds power into the pump motor ?

Sometimes a fuse may look OK, but it is not.

dcdrechsel

The control unit powers both the flaps and pump motor .If the flaps move the control unit has power .It sounds like the pump motor driver circuit is not working or a wire to the pump motor is open .