Have your 993TT turbochargers failed? - Page 3 - Rennlist Discussion Forums



Have your 993TT turbochargers failed?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-15-2012, 11:52 AM   #31
Ridin Dirty
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Ridin Dirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 754
Default

Unfortunately foolish owners such as myself will still drive the car with this initial smoke at start-up; that is until the repair can be carried out. Dealer said "that's normal". 3 minutes of smoke at start-up cannot be normal. Kevin says it may destroy the turbo from "carbon cutting like diamonds to sealing surfaces"
After reading this....I decided to park the car on incline. Ramps will do. Rear end up 15-20 degrees. That will mitigate the smoke at start-up until you are certain of the cause. At least the turbos wont be swimming in oil until the proper diagnosis/repair can be carried out. Note: if the cause is that you've massively overfilled the oil I trust this short term mitigation will not work.
Ridin Dirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 03:02 PM   #32
Kevin
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor

Thread Starter
 
Kevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northwest
Posts: 7,961
Default

The engine is not going to heal itself. For those that see this thread in the next year...

1) Verify that the engine oil is NOT 0W40!! Remove it ASAP if it is, or if you don't know.. Mobil VTwin 20W50 is a great oil.

2) YOU Must verify with your own eyes that you have a Porsche Original (NOT OEM) oil filter on the engine. Not a Bosch, Not a Mahle, Not a Fram, or XYZ... It is amazing how many folks are told that there tech installed the Porsche oil filter to find out that they installed Mahle filters..

3) Schedule your car in for a leak down test > NOT a compression test. If you have more than 12% leakdown, you will have oil migration issues! At this time one might remove the heat exchangers to verify the condition of your exhaust port ceramics. Three engines this year have needed one or more cylinder heads ($2,300.00 each) The ceramic is failing/cracking causing turbocharger turbine wheel/bearing damage. Exhaust valve guide wear is also a condition.

4) If you have not installed the inlet check valves, now is the time to do so. I have them in stock.

5) If you have done all of the above, then it is time to remove your turbocharger sump tank drain plugs to meter the oil migration. If you have more than 2 to 4 ounces, you have a issue.. Crankcase oil migration from main engine oil tank is filling up the turbochargers AND sump tank. The engine mounted oil filter is the major culprit. Oil is passing thru the turbine and compressor side sealing rings.

I have a few sets of my stainless "P" trap lines in stock to cure this condition.

6) One must also check to see the condition of your turbochargers, remove the plastic inlet intake pipes to your turbochargers. If oil is present, we need to discuss turbocharger rebuilding options.

NOTE, any of the above statements can cause oil in the intake system. Each step requires that you remove the Intercooler and plastic piping to mop up all the oil. It's takes alot of effort to cure this problem.
Kevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 03:44 PM   #33
Ridin Dirty
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Ridin Dirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 754
Default

I've got 0/40 Mobil 1 from dealer; (just read receipt) I 'll drain it and put the 20/50 Harley oil in. That's okay I had somebody tell me a couple of weeks ago that my car sounded like a "fat boy" anyway. Said...... "thanks?, I think".

So I'll drain the 0/40...But I don't really know why I'm doing it.

Devil's advocate: the zero value will protect start-up better- where "they" say so much engine wear occurs. The 20 will be quite thick at start-up. At temperature sure the 50 will be nicer than the 40 value.. but not by much really.
There must be another reason other than the obvious viscosity value to rationalize/trade-off some start-up wear.
Ridin Dirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 04:05 PM   #34
Kevin
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor

Thread Starter
 
Kevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northwest
Posts: 7,961
Default

Why change the oil???

1) Go and read you owners manual. You will NOT read 0W40 as a recommended oil.

2) You have a air-cooled engine, NOT a water cooled engine. The piston to cylinder liners (air cooled) have larger clearances.

3) 30 years ago and longer we used 30 weight as the factory fill for Porsche and VW...
Kevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 04:15 PM   #35
Kevin
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor

Thread Starter
 
Kevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northwest
Posts: 7,961
Default

Porsche recommendation was to run 15 or 20W oil to 14 F or -10C.. Then change the oil to a 10W. Artic temps one could use a 5W..
Kevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 04:46 PM   #36
Ridin Dirty
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Ridin Dirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 754
Default

Called dealer, I know em well, (I've got a Cayenne turbo as well). They said: It's b/c they didn't have the broad viscosity oils back then that they do now. And that the 15-20 cold value oils are just antiquated compared to the zero available now. (Implying that if the manual were written today it would say 0/40)

Perhaps they just don't want to stock another oil weight so they just throw 0/40 in? GGGRRRR!!
They also told me 3 minutes of smoke is normal. I need a new dealer.
Ridin Dirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 05:07 PM   #37
Kevin
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor

Thread Starter
 
Kevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northwest
Posts: 7,961
Default

That is just mis-information from your dealer. Multi weight Synthetics were in full force in the 90's.. For the 965 turbo and 993TT.
Kevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2012, 05:54 PM   #38
RP993
User
 
RP993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hungary / Europe
Posts: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Porsche recommendation was to run 15 or 20W oil to 14 F or -10C.. Then change the oil to a 10W. Artic temps one could use a 5W..

Hello Kevin,
Very useful thread for a 993tt rookie like me, thanks for sharing these infos. I have checked the avaible mobil oils in Europe and the best option is 5w-50 Mobil doesn't offer 15 or20w anymore.

Maybe i can find 10w-60 oil but its recommended for older cars with used, lightly worn engine.

So, which would you prefer?

Thanks for the answer in advance

Árpád
RP993 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:27 PM   #39
David in LA
Super User
 
David in LA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
....I have a few sets of my stainless "P" trap lines in stock to cure this condition......
Hi Kevin, do you mind sending me an email with the prices for you P trap lines? dntee at yahoo dot com

Thanks
David in LA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2013, 01:11 PM   #40
DoninDen
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
DoninDen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,040
Default

Kevin,

I just spoke to my Indy shop. They are well established, very solid and have been almost exclusively been working on air cooled 911's for over twenty five years. I have a great deal of respect for their knowledge and I called asking their opinion on the Mahle oil filters. They said they have experienced problems with the Porsche oil filters. I am taking my car in tomorrow for new front bushings and wanted to share your thoughts with them. I want to be sensitive to telling them what to do based on what I read on the forum, but they are good guys and open to other experienced advice.

Is this specifically a 993 Turbo issue with the Mahle filters? I believe that is what you are saying. I have to admit I did not ask if the problems they had experienced were on the 993's. I am wondering if my Indy's negative experience Porsche oil filters is with either NA 993 models or other 911 models. What oil should I make sure is being used? What should they check while they have the car?

Thanks,

Don
DoninDen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2013, 01:50 PM   #41
Kevin
Addict
Rennlist Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor

Thread Starter
 
Kevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northwest
Posts: 7,961
Default

Mahle filters are good. They just do not have the added check valve built into the filter when compared to the Porsche filter. You can install the LARGE/tall Mahle filter if you want. But the small engine mounted filter needs to be the Porsche filter.

Yes, the factory Porsche filter will fail, can fail if crimped, man handled and/or tightened to much
Kevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2013, 01:53 PM   #42
DoninDen
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
DoninDen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,040
Default

Thanks Kevin, I will pas this along. Should I have them look at the inlet pipe to the turbo on the driver's side? Which oil should I be using?
DoninDen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 01:24 PM   #43
alsaab
User
 
alsaab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)
Posts: 105
Default

Hi,

well here comes an update from Europe, have an issue since yesterday.
1996 Turbo with 130.000 kms, both turbos changes by previous owner 40.000 kms ago. Motul v300 15W50, original P filters and never any smoke on startup, even after sitting more than 1 month. Yesterday morning : huge smoke from both tailpipes, took 5 minutes of driving to stop. In the evening, 12 hours later, no smoke at all. The following morning, smoking again, less, but seriously smoking. Took it for a final drive, let it idle for 5 minutes and cracked both reservoirs : almost no oil, so scavenge pump seems to be able to cope with it as long as the engine is running. Let it drip then and had about 250 ml after 1 hour on both sides, a little bit more on passenger side (and more dirt around the left tail pipe). Could the OEM filter suddenly fail ? Has been installed and tightened by hand more than 1 year ago.

Thanks for your help


Alain

Update : oil level is historically always on the low side in order to avoid issues. With the oil cooler fan at high speed level is at 25% of the gauge. No fill up and absolutely no change to the system since 1 year....

Last edited by alsaab; 10-01-2013 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Update
alsaab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2013, 12:47 PM   #44
alsaab
User
 
alsaab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Luxembourg (Europe)
Posts: 105
Default

Hi again,

so I am going to reply to my question because there's news (if I am polluting this thread and should open a new one, please let me know).
Well, I think the filter is not the culprit this time. Reading a couple of posts regarding the issue I just felt I should check my dipstick. And for sure : it was no longer seated and I had to push it back against the sleeve. I still do not know what happened, but the oil tank must have been pressurized enough to push the dipstick out of the grooves. While I'm investigating the reason of this, I have one question right now : could this situation have damaged the turbocharger seals ??

Thanks again


Alain
alsaab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2014, 03:50 PM   #45
Cannonball
User
 
Cannonball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cato Wisconsin
Posts: 17
Default

What are the correct part numbers for Porsche filters? Will all aftermarket filters fail like this? I had been running WIX filters. Just thought I would ask.

And yes a Sticky is a great idea on this topic
Cannonball is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New oil control solution for Race/ORR/SC/Stroker/GTS/GT/CS/SE/S4/S3 928 Engines Rob Edwards 928 Forum 402 02-07-2013 11:42 AM
Ultiumate Motorwerks Billet Turbochargers Kevin 996 Turbo Forum 9 07-30-2011 06:20 AM
Ultimate Motorwerks Turbocharger check-valve kit Kevin 993 Turbo Forum 30 06-03-2011 04:58 PM
When Buying Turbo - look for this Torags 996 Turbo Forum 22 02-16-2005 04:29 PM
993 Turbo failures Kevin 993 Turbo Forum 5 06-26-2002 11:09 PM


Tags
993, 996tt, actuator, borg, k16, kit, marquis, membrane, oil, porsche, pump, rebuild, rex, scavenge, shift, short, tt, warner, wastegate

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 10:22 AM.


Copyright © 1998 - 2015 Rennlist.com
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
What's your question?
Send