Engine Mount (Bent Chassis!)
07-08-2003, 05:16 PM
#1
Racer
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Engine Mount (Bent Chassis!)
My car was up on the ramp at the OPC today and I noticed that the engine and gearbox slope slightly towards the left hand side of the car. You can see from the picture below.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/rearc4sie.jpg" alt=" - " />
The car wasn't exactly level, but the mechanics agreed that there is a slight slope. They feel that it's probably an engine mount. Has anyone else experienced this?
You may have seen from previous posts that this car did have an impact to the passenger side rear quarter panel (left hand side in picture). However, I wouldn't have thought it serious enough to cause this as there was no chasis damage.
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/rearc4sie.jpg" alt=" - " />
The car wasn't exactly level, but the mechanics agreed that there is a slight slope. They feel that it's probably an engine mount. Has anyone else experienced this?
You may have seen from previous posts that this car did have an impact to the passenger side rear quarter panel (left hand side in picture). However, I wouldn't have thought it serious enough to cause this as there was no chasis damage.
07-08-2003, 05:25 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
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ken,
i am in no way qualified to answer your queries...
however, from prior conversations to mechanics and owners, it seems that a 993 engine bay is so cramped with engine that any type of impact will almost always result in a shift.
i cant verify the truth in it, but it would be plausible.
any rennlister able to confirm this?
i am in no way qualified to answer your queries...
however, from prior conversations to mechanics and owners, it seems that a 993 engine bay is so cramped with engine that any type of impact will almost always result in a shift.
i cant verify the truth in it, but it would be plausible.
any rennlister able to confirm this?
07-09-2003, 07:36 AM
#5
Racer
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Good point, I'll get them to check. I managed to spill some oil on the first couple of top ups which could explain this. I haven't noticed any staining on the garage floor otherwise.
Thanks,
Thanks,
07-09-2003, 09:09 AM
#6
King of Cool
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I'd suggest to get RS engine (& tranny) mounts, some people have had engine mounts to go bad.
And hang that engine tray to your garage wall.
And hang that engine tray to your garage wall.
07-09-2003, 11:32 AM
#7
Racer
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OPC just called me. They said the the mounts are not that bad, but they'll replace them anyway. They put another 993 on the ramp and said the engine slopes something similar to mine and feel this is "normal". Any opinions?
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07-09-2003, 01:11 PM
#8
Racer
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ksimpson:
<strong>OPC just called me. They said the the mounts are not that bad, but they'll replace them anyway. They put another 993 on the ramp and said the engine slopes something similar to mine and feel this is "normal". Any opinions?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The engine torques over when you accelerate. Have someone sit in the car and rev it. You will see the engine torque over. This is normal. I wouldnt stress too much on it. Maybe the left motormount is worn out more than the right side. Again this is due to engine torquing over. On chevy big block engines, my buddy and i used to put chains around the motor mount because the engine torques over so bad that it just rips the motor mount out of its place.
<strong>OPC just called me. They said the the mounts are not that bad, but they'll replace them anyway. They put another 993 on the ramp and said the engine slopes something similar to mine and feel this is "normal". Any opinions?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The engine torques over when you accelerate. Have someone sit in the car and rev it. You will see the engine torque over. This is normal. I wouldnt stress too much on it. Maybe the left motormount is worn out more than the right side. Again this is due to engine torquing over. On chevy big block engines, my buddy and i used to put chains around the motor mount because the engine torques over so bad that it just rips the motor mount out of its place.
07-09-2003, 02:58 PM
#9
The mount is your problem. you will find the mount on the left is all squishy and probably the hydraulic fluid is gone out of it. Replace them with the RS mounts(cheap and VERy easy), do not put the stock mounts back in.
07-09-2003, 03:36 PM
#11
King of Cool
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<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=009872#000000" target="_blank">Check this thread</a>
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search;search_forum=3" target="_blank">Found here</a>
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search;search_forum=3" target="_blank">Found here</a>
07-10-2003, 08:05 AM
#13
Racer
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Went to the OPC to see the car this morning. They stripped out the suspension to replace a suspension arm and found that the chassis is sligtly bent. The arm supporting the engine on the left hand side of the picture above is slightly bent down from the impact.
They dont feel that this should be a big problem as it's only pushed down slightly and not in. They checked everything else which is fine.
They say if the allignment goes ok (it did at the last service) and the car drives well then I shouldn't worry.
If I'm getting an engine rebiuld in the future then I could get it straightened, but they wouldn't recommend it at the moment if it isn't effecting the handling.
Not too sure what to think.
They dont feel that this should be a big problem as it's only pushed down slightly and not in. They checked everything else which is fine.
They say if the allignment goes ok (it did at the last service) and the car drives well then I shouldn't worry.
If I'm getting an engine rebiuld in the future then I could get it straightened, but they wouldn't recommend it at the moment if it isn't effecting the handling.
Not too sure what to think.
07-10-2003, 02:29 PM
#14
Ken,
I’ve been doing some research on the motor mounts myself. I’ve found that sagging, like you’ve shown above, seems quite common. While your problem might be due to a bent “arm,” you might find this information about mounts helpful. It’s probably a good thing that they are replacing them. Take a look at the pictures on this thread:
<a href="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=210b4ca9e58b83f4a4247ba1817627b8&threadid=104756&highli ght=engine+mount" target="_blank">How to ID failed engine mount</a>
Notice how the failed mount shows a gap where the rubber piece has separated from the metal part. This metal part is where the hydraulic fluid lives, and it can leak out. If you take into account that the mounts are sitting upside down in the picture (it’s kind of hard to stand them up on the bolts!) the gap represents a sagging engine. This is the same gap shown on the old mounts in this DIY:
<a href="http://p-car.com/diy/motormount/" target="_blank">Replacing stock motor mounts</a>
Once I found this information, I took a look at my mounts. If your car is in the shop, you won’t be able to do this. I took a small mirror and I could see the gap where the rubber piece has separated from the metal piece. One side was worse than the other. I then jacked the engine up, and the gaps closed up. I found several references, and spoke with some mechanics, and learned that this is indicative of a failed mount. While it’s not imperative that you replace the mounts (the engine is not going to fall out), the engine can twist and this can cause drivability problems, like the smoothness referenced in the thread above, and even clutch drag or engagement problems. My mounts will be replaced in the near future. I am cautiously optimistic that it will solve these issues for me.
Good luck with your repairs! I would tend to agree with not replacing the bent engine support arm. If it’s not too bad, and your mounts are good, it shouldn’t cause a problem.
Tom
’95 993
I’ve been doing some research on the motor mounts myself. I’ve found that sagging, like you’ve shown above, seems quite common. While your problem might be due to a bent “arm,” you might find this information about mounts helpful. It’s probably a good thing that they are replacing them. Take a look at the pictures on this thread:
<a href="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=210b4ca9e58b83f4a4247ba1817627b8&threadid=104756&highli ght=engine+mount" target="_blank">How to ID failed engine mount</a>
Notice how the failed mount shows a gap where the rubber piece has separated from the metal part. This metal part is where the hydraulic fluid lives, and it can leak out. If you take into account that the mounts are sitting upside down in the picture (it’s kind of hard to stand them up on the bolts!) the gap represents a sagging engine. This is the same gap shown on the old mounts in this DIY:
<a href="http://p-car.com/diy/motormount/" target="_blank">Replacing stock motor mounts</a>
Once I found this information, I took a look at my mounts. If your car is in the shop, you won’t be able to do this. I took a small mirror and I could see the gap where the rubber piece has separated from the metal piece. One side was worse than the other. I then jacked the engine up, and the gaps closed up. I found several references, and spoke with some mechanics, and learned that this is indicative of a failed mount. While it’s not imperative that you replace the mounts (the engine is not going to fall out), the engine can twist and this can cause drivability problems, like the smoothness referenced in the thread above, and even clutch drag or engagement problems. My mounts will be replaced in the near future. I am cautiously optimistic that it will solve these issues for me.
Good luck with your repairs! I would tend to agree with not replacing the bent engine support arm. If it’s not too bad, and your mounts are good, it shouldn’t cause a problem.
Tom
’95 993
07-10-2003, 09:55 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
If the chassis damage is only slight, chances are that suspension alignment will be able to negate most of the problems related to the bend. Having said that, there is only so much adjustment that can be done to the suspension before there will be a compromise. See what the OPC says about the alignment...