maxpowers

Has anyone tried a de-ionizing filter like the one shown here at 1:43


I've seen some systems online and they're around $300. I can't tell from the video if he's using some kind of filter that just fits over the hose.

Now I'm just drying the car using a microfiber towel, but it takes a long time since I usually am washing several other cars at the same time

plenum

Some years back I lived where the water really was bad - hard and all that. I also had a black car. So I used one of the Griots Garage deionizers and it worked great! Here's a link: Portable Water Deionizer.

Yes, it is pricey at $300. But take care of it and over time it will save you a lot of time and other products trying to keep your paint clear....

Oh, and another thing other members do that saves a LOT of time is use a blower to dry the car off without touching it at all with a towel! So if you are concerned with dry time, that may work out best for you.

Bigalfromfl

Yes , they do work. CR Spotless is one I have experience with. You can literally rinse the car off and walk away...don't even have to dry it. It will not leave any water spots. Now, I don't do this all the time, I still dry, but have done it on the daily driver to see what happens!

Hope this helps!

scatkins

I highly recommend usage of a DI system and am very happy with my results.

I have been using a CR spotless. Depending on the model you get you can get for about $250.. You can reduce the resin cost by going with one of the other suppliers (cuts the cost of resin by about 50% from what CR charges you).

I use the CR spotless and then use an airmax dryer. This way I don't have to use a drying towel. This really minimizes potential swirling.

Another nice advantage of the DI is that you don't have to rush so much in the hot sun. I don't really advocate letting it completely dry as shown in the videos, but it keeps you from having to rush so much and minimizes spotting.

I wouldn't think of washing my Black 991 without it.

Note there is really nothing special about CR Spotless.. It is simply a prepackaged DI system. You can make your own by buying the filter housings and resin. Essentially all you do is run the tap water through the resin canister with DI resin which removes the dissolved solids. No real magic there. The CR is just a convenient way of getting going.

chuck911

If your water quality is average or better deionizing won't do much if anything. If your water quality is really bad you may need reverse osmosis to do it right. In between there are some situations where deionizing makes a difference. Its because of this wide range of circumstances that you'll find some people raving about the magic of deionization while others say its a waste of money. Depending on their exact situation both of them could be right.

Take it from a guy who studied this one to death in order to run a high-end invertebrate marine display (aka reef tank) there are no blanket answers. All you can do is figure out first, if you even have a water problem, then determine exactly what it is, then learn about filtration and treatment options, and then and only then will you be able to determine what if anything you should do about it.

scatkins

Make it as complicated as you want, and highly disagree that there are "some situations" where it is helpful.. In general I would characterize it as very helpful in "most situations". . If you believe otherwise go peruse the detailing forums and you will get a much more accurate and balanced characterization. Not sure how any of this pertains to a fish tank, but I don't really care... So sorry I'm not going to take it on that basis.

In reality for most it is rather simple and effective solution (although it does cost money). Practical experience indicates you will see an improvement across the board. I don't doubt that there are cases where the dissolved solids are so high it is pointless but those are probably the exceptions and in general you tend to know if your water is very hard in your area..

If you have any dissolved solids in your water (and we all do) you will see an improvement in spotting, because that is that residual that makes spots. I've not seen a level so low yet that it doesn't matter, but maybe it does exist. But then again if that is the case, chances are you aren't bothering reading this thread because it is of no concern to you.

I've used CR / DI in 400 PPM water at my primary residence and it work wonderfully. I've also used in another area where the water was much better in the < 60 PPM range and even that range you get spots. I've yet to see anyone who doesn't spot to some extent... Use it on a black car and it becomes even much more critical...

Going to reverse osmosis is a lot more expensive and generally impractical for this kind of intended use for a guy who simply likes to detail his own car. Not saying it doesn't have it's place but is generally unnecessary for general detailing.

So back to the OP's question.. If water spots are a problem it is highly likely you will see a dramatic improvement and your cost is about $300 to get a setup and going. Then you have the DI resin changes depending on how often you use it and how you use it. I do a full wash on average of about every one to two weeks and I get about 8 washes out of my resin for about $55 worth of resin. (CR charges about double that for their resin, but I use a discount source)

Note typically most experienced users try to minimize the water usage as you burn out your resin very quickly if you aren't careful (generally the canisters are rated for 100 to 200 gals of usage). So often you only do your final rinse with the DI water and some use low settings on a pressure washer to minimize. It is just something you experiment and get your own method. Personally I do all my rinses with DI, simply because I have found I get hard water running down unexpectedly from moldings and etc. So by using DI I eliminate that issue.

scatkins

Make it as complicated as you want. In practical experience indicates you will see an improvement across the board. I don't doubt that there are cases where the dissolved solids are so high it is pointless but those are probably the exceptions and in general you tend to know if your water is very hard in your area..

If you water is so low in dissolved solids in your area that it isn't a problem then well you probably aren't reading the thread because it is of no concern to you in the first place..

But if you have any dissolved solids in your water (and we all do) you will see an improvement in spotting, because that is that residual that makes spots.

I've used CR / DI in 400 PPM water at my primary residence and it work wonderfully. I've also used in another area where the water was much better in the < 60 PPM range and even that range you get spots. I've yet to see anyone who doesn't spot...

Going to reverse osmosis is a lot more expensive and generally impractical for this kind of intended use for a guy who likes to detail his own car.

So back to the OP's question.. If water spots are a problem it is highly likely you will see a dramatic improvement and your cost is about $300 to get a setup and going. Then you have the DI resin changes depending on how often you use it and how you use it.

Note typically most experienced users try to minimize the water usage as you burn out your resin very quickly if you aren't careful. So often you only do your final rinse with the DI water and some use low settings on a pressure washer to minimize. It is just something you experiment and get your own method.

jsr991

+1

CSK 911 C4S

If your water is bad I suggest you get a water softener/filter for the entire house and save your pipes and in turn will have conditioned water for washing your vehicles.

plenum

+1. I have a whole-house water filtering / conditioning system, and the difference is remarkable for my area. We are on public water, and the typical experience is very hard water in this area. When building this house, I installed the system right off the water main. 4 years later, still working wonderfully, very little maintenance involved (one of the filtering systems involved actually auto-cleans by purging on a scheduled basis!). It was not an insignificant investment but I would do it all again in a heartbeat.

But I agree with others posting here on one point -- that everyone's experience will be different! The first rule is -- find out what is causing the spotting, which means get a water analysis done! Once you know what is in your water, you can decide upon the most effective treatment. Until then you are guessing with your $$. Oh, and of course you have to periodically check, since water conditions will change! Not far from where I live for example, a truck accident contaminated ground water near a retention basis for public water.... so the public officials shut-down the pump station, and switched to a neighboring public water basin until the contamination could be remediated. You could go from great water conditions to poor just like that, the flick of a switch!

scatkins

Yes, no question that things like water softeners, water analysis, RO filters all can be part of a bigger picture (although not everyone is gaga about water softeners as they introduce a small amount of salt into tap water which arguably has it's own potential health issues. But that is a completely different issue).

That said not everyone is interested in consulting a PHD in public water sources. Most people don't want to install a water softener or RO system just to wash their car if they haven't already decided they wanted one for other reasons. But they might be willing to spend $250 for a nifty product they quickly can roll out into the driveway if it helps keep their spots off the car when they wash it in the hot sun.

But lets get real, the OPs question was more basic.. "hey do these things work?" not what is the best way to get low dissolved solids water which apparently the experts want to express. And the answer is yes they work, with a common sense preface (like most things in life, no duh) that there are practical limitations in some cases. or YMMV..

No question many people live in places with very hard water. And in those cases the effect of this is you rapidly deplete the DI resin. So in those cases it ends up being more expensive to use DI or possibly depletes the DI so fast as to be unusable or impractical). That said I've yet to hear from anyone in the detailing community that uses one say it didn't have value. What you do hear is people who don't know how to use them properly and that is where most of the problems occur. And from what I'm hearing here it is people who have never actually used one, explaining why something else should be considered.

Is a DI system the best and most efficient way to get soft water. Nope. But it a relatively cheap way for most people to get a quick car spotless wash... For the vast majority of us this is the case. (even though there are some who like to answer NO to a question when they haven't even used the product in question).

Is it the only way?, No of course not, but that wasn't the OPs question.

STG

Soft water works awesome in my house and saves the chrome German fixtures!

You can have a plumber run different lines with non softened water. Like a kitchen sink, or in my case for outdoor watering. I don't need soft water for the grass.

In my garage, I have two lines. One regular and one soft water if wanting to wash a car with it.

maxpowers

My water isn't anywhere near enough to need a water softener. I often visit an area that does and the water here is very different. It still will leave water markers if you don't wipe the car off after washing.

The problem I have with these systems is the size. Until I get rid of some things in the garage I can't fit something on wheels like that. I was hoping there was a simple attachment that wouldn't take up too much space

scatkins

It is indeed another thing in the garage. But if you get the single canister CR (instead of the two smaller canisters) it really isn't all that big. Its the rolling frame etc that increases the bulk. But it is pretty small when you compare to a water softener. I've had water softeners but even with my relatively hard water they are just too big and too much hassle for me.

I've seen a couple of people who bolt ther CR/DI to the wall (either internal or external) which gets them off the garage floor. I'm contemplating bolting mine near the garage door, and running a fixed water source line to it. Then I can just quickly hook a hose up to it when I wash. It is a pretty clean setup if you do it right. Also minimizes the time to drag it out and get it hooked up each time.

But you said the key word above "wipe the car off".. I strive to minimize wiping the surface to eliminate swirling. By using the DI water and using an air dryer I never touch the surface of the car. You can still use an air dryer without pure water, but I've found I'll end up with at least some spots on the car that need to be wiped.. Long germ I'm finding that the magic to a pristine looking car finish is to minimize wiping it in the drying phase. At least when soaping it there is some inherent lubrication and with a microfiber mit I haven't had any swirls being introduced yet.

chuck911

One reason I'm not real big on equipment is that over the years I've learned its better to be big on technique. The guy in the video for example is typical in going round and round with a great big shaggy wash mitt. These things are great in terms of being forgiving and allowing people like the guy in the video to not scratch the car up too badly even with his terrible technique of going back and forth and round and round, something no one would ever catch me doing with any car. Instead I use a 100% cotton bath towel sewn into a wash mitt. Yes this sounds dreadfully low-tech and I can practically guys cringing out there, writing me off, but then again stop and consider the reality that my car even after being washed several times looks better than guys who've paid for top end detailing look straight from the shop.

Seriously. Stop and think about it. Because its true.

The difference is technique. On the first pass I never apply any pressure. The weight of the mitt with water is more than enough. Sometimes I'll even lift slightly. Then while making a pass, if the area is really dirty to where the leading edge will start showing dirt, then I'll raise the leading edge as I go along, so that only clean cloth ever touches my paint. After that one pass of one small area (about the size of a door or half the hood) turn the mitt over and make one pass over the same area, this time with very light pressure. Sounds complicated but its not hard at all and once it becomes habit it turns out to actually save time because going over one small area methodically like this is much faster than going over the same area over and over haphazardly like most people do.

Then as soon as an area like the roof, rear fender, door, etc is washed I'll rinse it with a sheet rinse. Not the useless waste of time sheet rinse like the guy in the video, which I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would do, but an effective no-splash sheet rinse that leaves the area absolutely clear of water. Because see, if there's no water, there's no need for deionizers, blowers, or towels. More saved time and effort and money and wear.

Sadly there are NO videos ANYWHERE demonstrating correct sheet rinse technique, so I'll clue you all in. First you must carefully adjust the water to flow cleanly out the hose and onto the car in one fluid stream with no splashing. (Watch all the videos, there is splashing galore. Complete waste of time.) Then while the water is flowing with no splashing use the stream to guide and maintain the sheet while it flows off the car in one continuous sheet. Get ahead of the sheet and it will break up leaving big gobs of water. This is the skill part. Do it right and there will be NO WATER AT ALL left on the car.

At least not if your finish is up to it. The minute your finish starts to go you'll see it in the sheet rinse. At first with fresh wax the sheet will flow right off thick and fast. As the wax gets older it'll flow slower and thinner and you'll have to be more careful with the hose in order to keep it from breaking up. Eventually the sheet will start getting hung up on little specks of stuff, too small to see but enough to catch and hold water drops. That's telling you its time to clay and/or wax. So another reason to sheet properly, besides the time, money, effort and wear it saves, is its one of the best objective indications of the quality of your finish and whether or not its really time to polish or wax again.

This right here is the biggest single difference I have noticed over the years on RL. The vast majority of advice is centered on what to buy. I'm (usually)not saying any of this equipment is a complete waste of money in terms of it not working as claimed. I'm simply saying that most of it really is not necessary- if, instead of equipment, you use skills.

Remember, girls only want boyfriends who have great skills.