Used Oil Analysis On 991
10-04-2014, 02:29 AM
#31
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OK, after almost 10,000 wonderful miles (just a sunny weekend toy) since taking delivery in March, here is my 3rd oil change UOA. The Joe Gibbs DT40 5W40 has proven to be a great product. All my wear metals have really dropped like a rock.
At this oil change, I moved to Mobil 5W50. Porsche approved. I've run this oil in other Porsches over the years with great results. I plan to run this oil all of 2015, and this time next year (after 2 more UOA's) will decide if I stay with the Mobil 5W50, go back to the Joe Gibbs DT40, or maybe try Motul 5W40. What I like about the Mobil 5W50 is the much improved SUS 210 viscosity and cSt 100 viscosity.
Car goes into storage in 2 weeks from this Saturday. I'll put about 1,000 miles on it before than, then say goodnight till mid April.
At this oil change, I moved to Mobil 5W50. Porsche approved. I've run this oil in other Porsches over the years with great results. I plan to run this oil all of 2015, and this time next year (after 2 more UOA's) will decide if I stay with the Mobil 5W50, go back to the Joe Gibbs DT40, or maybe try Motul 5W40. What I like about the Mobil 5W50 is the much improved SUS 210 viscosity and cSt 100 viscosity.
Car goes into storage in 2 weeks from this Saturday. I'll put about 1,000 miles on it before than, then say goodnight till mid April.
10-04-2014, 11:02 AM
#32
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Carbon? Really? Everything is made from carbon.
The main concerns with long term storage, as it relates to oil, is moisture and acidity. A 1,000 miles or so is really nothing, IMO. These miles will come from 2 final weekend road trips of the year, to see fall colors in Wisconsin, if the weather is decent. The oil will be up to temp each time for extended periods, and little to no idling.
I'm really not too concerned about it. And the mileage will be closer to 800 because the weather sucks today in the Chicago area (rain) and I decided not to go to Blackhawk today for the PCA DE.
10-04-2014, 07:31 PM
#33
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...
This is something I've questioned repeatedly. There are for example all kinds of sources of general information, such as for example the way main and con rod bearings are made of babbitt, a mix of different layers of various soft metals such as tin, copper, antimony, lead. But I've been unable to find anything that answers even such a basic question as does Porsche use lead or not? I totally agree, the odds of being able to get anything out of UOA without access to this sort of materials information seems slim (to none). Yet nobody seems the least bit interested in this simple fact.
This is something I've questioned repeatedly. There are for example all kinds of sources of general information, such as for example the way main and con rod bearings are made of babbitt, a mix of different layers of various soft metals such as tin, copper, antimony, lead. But I've been unable to find anything that answers even such a basic question as does Porsche use lead or not? I totally agree, the odds of being able to get anything out of UOA without access to this sort of materials information seems slim (to none). Yet nobody seems the least bit interested in this simple fact.
Sure PAG/PCNA has in-house wear knowledge and a single UOA is more meaningful for them. In fact, PCNA is known to order UOAs when diagnosing customer cars in the field.
Nothing wrong about routinely collecting UOAs for engines one wants to keep an eye for the long run.
P.S. - One should also be aware that elemental readings vary with different oil formulations, as it relates to different additive contents. Also good to know.
10-04-2014, 10:11 PM
#34
http://www.swri.org/4org/ae/docs/rattpaper.pdf
Just an excellent paper! Thank for the link. SWIRL does excellent studies!
Note that in the pictures are the tri-bladed Radiation Warning sings so the Lab does have to meet NRC requirements and have an NRC License to control Radioactive Materials. A not inexpensive requirement.
Since the isotopic detection method is so sensitive, wear studies are almost done in real time as they siphon a small portion of the oil flow and then and count. Pretty sophisticated.
Our synthetic oil in the Reactor Coolant pumps did not become activated so we could check the level of radiation and release to our off site lab. But we never thought to measure the contamination in our Multi-Channel Analyzers, to determine the contamination products in the oil.
It's really a question of money and time. It would cost more than a Porsche engine is worth to reproduce this testing and of course the License required to do this.
But it is very interesting.
As to response to my points, when you have so much invested in time and effort to believe you are accomplishing something meaningful, it is very difficult to give this up.
Me, I just change the oil and filter!-Dick
Just an excellent paper! Thank for the link. SWIRL does excellent studies!
Note that in the pictures are the tri-bladed Radiation Warning sings so the Lab does have to meet NRC requirements and have an NRC License to control Radioactive Materials. A not inexpensive requirement.
Since the isotopic detection method is so sensitive, wear studies are almost done in real time as they siphon a small portion of the oil flow and then and count. Pretty sophisticated.
Our synthetic oil in the Reactor Coolant pumps did not become activated so we could check the level of radiation and release to our off site lab. But we never thought to measure the contamination in our Multi-Channel Analyzers, to determine the contamination products in the oil.
It's really a question of money and time. It would cost more than a Porsche engine is worth to reproduce this testing and of course the License required to do this.
But it is very interesting.
As to response to my points, when you have so much invested in time and effort to believe you are accomplishing something meaningful, it is very difficult to give this up.
Me, I just change the oil and filter!-Dick
But really, I should be thanking you! From the beginning I have been wondering how anyone's ever going to know enough about where the wear is coming from to get anything the least bit useful from UOA. Even if we knew the exact composition of every engine component! UOA relies on spectroscopy to record elements. But engine components are alloys. If only Porsche would make each component of a different element, UOA would be so much easier!
It just can't work as advertised. Until your post. Something about your nuclear reference and being able to isolate individual bearings made a light go on. How did we figure out the exact molecular chemistry of photosynthesis, et al? We "tagged" molecules with radioisotopes. Next thing you know I'm Googling UOA isotopes and… bingo! Your "excellent paper" http://www.swri.org/4org/ae/docs/rattpaper.pdf was merely the first one I found to fit the bill, which it seemed to do so well there didn't seem any point in looking further. I've no idea how many others are out there.
This to me is remarkable. Between your comment and Google, it took about 5 minutes to learn exactly what it takes to do meaningful UOA. Kind of reminds me of one of the stories in Surely You're Joking Mr Feynmann! http://www.chem.fsu.edu/chemlab/isc3...eyn_surely.pdf Anyway, like you said, invested time and effort. Its a lot easier staying nimble when you can keep it down to a few minutes every now and then.
10-04-2014, 10:34 PM
#35
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^hey Chuckie STFO of my thread unless you have a UOA to post for a 911. A 991 would be the preference. Now go start you own ******* thread in the Off Topic Forum if you want to keep talking about nuclear reactors.
10-04-2014, 10:50 PM
#36
My last mob1 5w50 sample ( with almost the same mileage as your mob 1 0W40) was 908 P, 1004 ZN.
At least for those two variables only, the DT-40 and 5w-50 oils seem comparable.
At least for those two variables only, the DT-40 and 5w-50 oils seem comparable.
Here is my latest UOA.
A few notes to mention:
1) Of the 3,629 miles covered, about 1,000 were still part of the break-in process (under 4,000 RPM). The remaining miles were all normal spirited driving using the full rev range.
2) Prior to oil change, I ran a tank of fuel treated with Chevron Techron Fuel System Cleaner.
3) With almost 3 times the miles of my first test, major wear metals (Alum. and Copper) both dropped 40% or more. Iron stayed essentially flat.
4) The Joe Gibbs DT40 5W40 has more Phosphorus (17%) and Zinc (14.5%) than the factory fill Mobil 0W40. I liked seeing this and expected that.
5) I wish the viscosities were better. If I don't see an improvement there, as the DT40 becomes more concentrated with the 2nd oil change, I'll probably switch to Mobil 5W50 or Motul sometime next summer.
A few notes to mention:
1) Of the 3,629 miles covered, about 1,000 were still part of the break-in process (under 4,000 RPM). The remaining miles were all normal spirited driving using the full rev range.
2) Prior to oil change, I ran a tank of fuel treated with Chevron Techron Fuel System Cleaner.
3) With almost 3 times the miles of my first test, major wear metals (Alum. and Copper) both dropped 40% or more. Iron stayed essentially flat.
4) The Joe Gibbs DT40 5W40 has more Phosphorus (17%) and Zinc (14.5%) than the factory fill Mobil 0W40. I liked seeing this and expected that.
5) I wish the viscosities were better. If I don't see an improvement there, as the DT40 becomes more concentrated with the 2nd oil change, I'll probably switch to Mobil 5W50 or Motul sometime next summer.
07-24-2015, 12:53 PM
#37
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I just realized I did not post my May 2015 UOA.
5,027 miles. About 1,500 of those were before Winter 2014 Hibernation. The remaining 3,500 miles were done in March-May 2015. Car sat in my heated garage from October-March, untouched, never started. Techron used in fuel prior (one tank) to oil change.
This was my 3rd oil change. First 2 were with DRIVEN Joe Gibbs DT40 5W40. 3rd oil change was Mobil 5W50. I refilled with Mobil 5W50 and plan to stay with it a while longer. May still try Motul 5W40 someday. But, I'm really liking the Mobil 5W50.
Metals continue to drop. And as expected (and why I selected Mobil 5W50) the SUS Viscosity @210F and cSt Viscosity @100C are much-much improved over the factory fill (Mobil 0W40 and Joe Gibbs DT40). These 3.8l motors really beat-up the oil.
Heck, I'm almost at another 5,000 miles since late May. Will schedule oil change in about 3 weeks.
5,027 miles. About 1,500 of those were before Winter 2014 Hibernation. The remaining 3,500 miles were done in March-May 2015. Car sat in my heated garage from October-March, untouched, never started. Techron used in fuel prior (one tank) to oil change.
This was my 3rd oil change. First 2 were with DRIVEN Joe Gibbs DT40 5W40. 3rd oil change was Mobil 5W50. I refilled with Mobil 5W50 and plan to stay with it a while longer. May still try Motul 5W40 someday. But, I'm really liking the Mobil 5W50.
Metals continue to drop. And as expected (and why I selected Mobil 5W50) the SUS Viscosity @210F and cSt Viscosity @100C are much-much improved over the factory fill (Mobil 0W40 and Joe Gibbs DT40). These 3.8l motors really beat-up the oil.
Heck, I'm almost at another 5,000 miles since late May. Will schedule oil change in about 3 weeks.
08-26-2015, 07:30 PM
#38
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Another great UOA from my August oil change. 20,206 miles on the car. 5,745 miles on the oil. Mobil 5W50. Wear metals very low, even with 15% more mileage on the drain interval. Phosphorus and zinc levels slightly higher (now that the oil is closer to 100% Mobil, and not being diluted from the Joe Gibbs DT40). High shear viscosities continue to improve for the same reasons.
I'm staying with the Mobil 5W50.
I'm staying with the Mobil 5W50.
08-26-2015, 07:47 PM
#39
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I would be interested to see the difference between an engine that was broken in according to the recommended 2000 mile procedure, (such as this) and an engine that was romped on from day 1...
08-27-2015, 04:12 AM
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08-27-2015, 10:07 AM
#41
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^Hey Chuck991, stop posting stupid $hit in my UOA thread. Either get back on your meds, or buy a 991 and start posting your own UOAs after you do the "drive-it-like-you-stole-it-hard-break-in. Or do both. Or just STFU (preferred).
No one here cars about; race engines, Hondas, and motorcycles, as it relates to the wear metals and UOAs of a 991 9A1 motor.
No one here cars about; race engines, Hondas, and motorcycles, as it relates to the wear metals and UOAs of a 991 9A1 motor.
03-24-2016, 10:24 AM
#42
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I just had my oil changed on Tuesday of this week. This is my 6th oil change, and 4th one with M1 5W50. I'll post the Blackstone UOA as soon as it arrives to me next week.
03-24-2016, 10:06 PM
#43
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I have never sent out my oil for analysis. I'm coming up on the 20k mile service next week. The car has had M1 0-40 from new, and 3 previous oil changes at 5k mile intervals. My Indy uses Motul 5-40. I'm thinking of having him change it this time instead of the dealer. Just curious to why you chose 5-50 in Chicagoland area. I know it gets hot there but not like Fla or Az. If I google BlackStone will I get all the info I need to get a UOA? Cost? Thanks Lex
03-24-2016, 11:40 PM
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