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Old 02-24-2012, 12:57 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jsonorous View Post
This drives me INSANE! I spent $2250 last year to pick up my Cayenne S in Leipzig.
I'm sure PCNA is expecting recent customers to call and ask for fair pricing consideration -- it might be only a token (say half?) but I think they're tied and obligated when they make this sort of fee change.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:22 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Edgy01 View Post
If you have a little time, go read my article on Euro Delivery that was published in Porsche Panorama in 2008. http://coochas.com/porsche/Resources...roDelivery.pdf
Very nice article, Dan.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:10 PM   #18
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My wife and I attended a gala 991 Unveiling Event at my local dealer on Friday. This event was attended by a PCNA Customer Consultation Specialist who spoke to us about European Delivery. I followed up our conversation with an email and I received answers today. Here are the questions and answers:

1. Q: What is the length of time for the “normal” insurance period
included in the program? My understanding was two weeks.


A: Two weeks of vehicle insurance and registration is included in the program. You could keep the vehicle for up to 6 months in Europe, but you would be responsible for the extended insurance costs after that first 2 weeks. We can provide a rough estimate of those costs if you know how much longer you wish to stay.

2. Q: What is now included in the program? I understood one
night’s stay in the Stuttgart/Zuffenhausen area is included after
arrival.


A: Included in the program is:
Factory Tour
Vehicle delivery by a trained instructor (Louis, an American working at the factory now)
Lunch Entry into the Porsche Museum (Stuttgart deliveries only)
Test Track and Off-Road Track Experience (Leipzig deliveries only)
One night hotel stay Taxi vouchers to and from the factory
2 weeks of vehicle insurance
Vehicle Registration
2 weeks of winter tires (if necessary)
Discounted air fare with Lufthansa airlines Discounted rates with select Steigenberger Hotel properties

3. Q: As you know, the state of Florida does not require a front
license plate. It is my understanding Porsche requires a front plate
for European Delivery and will not permit a tow hook license plate
mount to be used, even if supplied by the owner. Is there any option
available to avoid drilling the front bumper of the car for the
European Delivery program?


A: Unfortunately there is not another option for mounting the front plate with out drilling holes into the front bumper, and they are VERY strict about the front plates in Germany. We are looking at alternate mounting options that will avoid drilling into the bumper, but right now we haven't found anything that has been approved per German standards.

4. Q: It has been Porsche’s practice to require a temporary VAT
“Deposit” 0f $10,000 for European Delivery. Is this still required?

A: The VAT is collected at the dealer level now. The dealer will collect the full 19% of MSRP, and this is reflected on the Customer Invoice.

5. Q: It is my understanding Porsche once received a direct tax
benefit from the German government for each German car sold and
delivered to a non-resident foreigner within the borders of Germany.
I note here that BMW and Mercedes Benz still offer a discounted price
for the car (up to 7% in some cases), so I suspect this benefit
remains in effect. Audi offers discounted prices as well. I fail to
understand why Porsche charges the dealer for a program that
effectively lowers the price of the car for Porsche without passing
those discounts on to both the dealer and the owner. What can you
tell me about this?


A: This one I have to do some research on to get an answer, and have contacted PAG about it. I have never heard of any kind of tax discount, and we certainly don't receive any tax benefit now. It is my understanding that Mercedes and BMW take a pretty big financial hit for their program that they write-off as a marketing cost. My newest colleagues at PCNA did quite a bit of research into this when they took over the program to try and find a way to compete with those distributors in that sense, but we just don't have the volume to make a discount like that plausible.


These answers are interesting although I did not find the news particularly good. A drilled bumper and a 19% deposit for a period of time are not what I call "incentives."
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lspain View Post
5. Q: It is my understanding Porsche once received a direct tax
benefit from the German government for each German car sold and
delivered to a non-resident foreigner within the borders of Germany.
I note here that BMW and Mercedes Benz still offer a discounted price
for the car (up to 7% in some cases), so I suspect this benefit
remains in effect. Audi offers discounted prices as well. I fail to
understand why Porsche charges the dealer for a program that
effectively lowers the price of the car for Porsche without passing
those discounts on to both the dealer and the owner. What can you
tell me about this?


A: This one I have to do some research on to get an answer, and have contacted PAG about it. I have never heard of any kind of tax discount, and we certainly don't receive any tax benefit now. It is my understanding that Mercedes and BMW take a pretty big financial hit for their program that they write-off as a marketing cost. My newest colleagues at PCNA did quite a bit of research into this when they took over the program to try and find a way to compete with those distributors in that sense, but we just don't have the volume to make a discount like that plausible.
Good follow-up Ispain! The fact that this representative has never heard of a tax discounts by the German government to the auto factory re: European Delivery is not surprising. Most don't know the history of this unique program. For MB and BMW to be offering these substantial discounts without a tax benefit is hard to believe. As he admits, this is a 'pretty big financial hit' for just marketing purposes. If you analyze MB/BMW's European Delivery Programs, you really don't see either company making a big deal of it or advertising it much. Their ED programs seems more like an insider's club among a select group of MB and BMW 'afficionados' that seem know a lot about it and this same group continues to take advantage of this program year-after-year. It has never been a well known program or heavily marketed in the United States by these companies! So I just don't buy their ED program is simply an expensive 'write-off' for marketing purposes.

Saludos, Eduardo (z356)
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:22 PM   #20
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Fellas, I just joined the board a few min ago and have taken factory delivery of my last two BMWs in Munich. Further, I sat down with the former head of the Porsche Euro delivery program--he now runs a Porsche design studio where he helped me with a virtual 991 build--and his comments correspond well with what has been discussed here. All I have time to add at this moment--I depart for MUC in a few hrs on non-Porsche related business--is that Porsche claims that the ins on their cars is far more expensive than for BMW and MB, and hence the lack of an ED discount. Nevertheless, I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on a 991S PDK--my first P-car!--to be picked up in Zuffenhausen this summer. From my BMW experience, driving through Europe in a new car of this caliber, and staying at converted castles and monasteries, etc, is one of life's great treats for a car nut like moi.

Out,

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Old 02-29-2012, 12:45 AM   #21
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Nice, make sure to post pictures and a nice review!
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:54 PM   #22
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I did ED in Leipzig in april

I was charged 10k flat VAT deposit (not sure about interest included as refund of licensing was included in that check)

They asked if my state requires a front plate (i lied and said no) so they used double-sided tape for it.

Im going to do ED in stutt/zuf this time and after reading these posts I demand a greater discount since they get the allocation back.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijowysock View Post
i spoke with jamie @ European Delivery <European.Delivery@porsche.us>

he was very helpful with the details,

they are also working on flight arrangements with lufthansa and hotel arrangements as well....
Did that happen by e-mail (vs voice)? I wonder because Jamie Dillon is a European Delivery specialist in Altanta and is most definitely a "she" and yes she is very helpful.

I asked the question too about the license plate holes as I also live in Florida. There are two choices 1: you live with the holes or 2: you can buy a new bumper at your cost. There are no covers provided, etc. She is checking into whether you be able to keep the plate that is used during the trip which might be neat but I'll just figure out a way to put a cover over the hole or maybe a button that says: "Behind this button is a hole that Porsche drilled for my license plate in Europe"
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nhirsch View Post
I asked the question too about the license plate holes as I also live in Florida. There are two choices 1: you live with the holes or 2: you can buy a new bumper at your cost. There are no covers provided, etc. She is checking into whether you be able to keep the plate that is used during the trip which might be neat but I'll just figure out a way to put a cover over the hole or maybe a button that says: "Behind this button is a hole that Porsche drilled for my license plate in Europe"
You can definitely keep the plate. I have the plates from 7 tourist deliveries including 3 Porsches. As for the holes, you can get perfectly color matched plugs from Eric's Bumper Plugs, a RL board sponser.
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:20 PM   #25
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I asked the question of Atlanta, too. Figured if we collectively make enough noise then maybe a solution will eventually appear. It is a solvable problem it seems.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:54 PM   #26
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Does anyone have a guess as to when Euro Delivery will switch over to the 2013 model?
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:41 PM   #27
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My guess would be in August 2012. Find out when the factory goes on holiday and after that the '13 models will be out, and available for local (Zuffenhausen) delivery.
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:39 PM   #28
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never mind, I see it is answered above.

Last edited by DrJay; 03-10-2012 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:49 PM   #29
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My guess would be in August 2012. Find out when the factory goes on holiday and after that the '13 models will be out, and available for local (Zuffenhausen) delivery.
Dan, that is 'old school' thinking, like we were used to see years ago! Porsche today is playing around with MY start dates regardless of the normal August vacations mandated by the 'work councils' and the powerful unions in the German auto industry that have a seat on VW/Porsche's board. For example, MY2011 gt3 RS's started to be produced in early Spring of 2010! And MY2012 Spyders started to be build around late March/early April of 2011 and production ended in late July, even before the Zuffenhausen factory went officially on vacation in August of 2011! So to answer the question, we really DO NOT know when MY2013 models will start to be produced at Zuffenhausen! But my guess is pretty soon - way before the worker's August vacation starts!

I was surprised that the new 991 arrived in the US as a MY2012. I would have thought it would have been a MY2013. I can't think of another instance where PAG produced the same models on two different platforms - a MY2012 997.2 and a MY2012 991.1 - in one SINGLE model year. We have had 997.2 models (e.g. 911 & 911S) produced alongside a 997.1 model (997.1 Turbo) in MY2009 but that was different - the 911 Turbo was carried-over for one more year in the older platform. But this is the same model - 911 & GTS versions - in two different platforms and both classified officially as a MY2012! This fact will not be kind to early adopters (buyers) of the MY2012 991 as it will suffer a quicker depreciation 'hit' than otherwise most would have expected this car to suffer (had it been an early MY2013).

Saludos,
Eduardo
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:27 PM   #30
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International driver's license -- is it necessary for EU countries, does anyone care?

Insurance -- yes car is insured 2 weeks there -- but does PAG also cover from factory to the dealer in the U.S. or is this a weird situation where buyer needs to cover during shipment?
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:27 PM
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