PierreTT

I would consider aftermarket solutions if you plan to keep the car and track it alot....

seapar

Deleted

Carrera51

There are several good independent shops in Florida. I would get a second opinion.

doubleurx

Are all brake components specifically not included in the standard, and track use warranty? I can see pads and rotors, but calipers? I'd contact PCNA for clarification.

Carrera51

The 991 Cup brake components are made by Performance Friction so different than what is in on the street 991 GT3.

Keith Verges - Dallas

As a warranty example, my 12C rear calipers discolored from heat of track driving, as they intervene all the time to simulate a LSD (the diff is open). Dealer replaced them under warranty with no squawking from McLaren. And rotors/pad replacement was DIY by me. If ceramic piston insulators cracked at 2750 miles total, unless there were signs of some kind of abuse, I'd expect warranty replacement of pistons or caliper, whatever Porsche feels is appropriate.

MXS

Appreciate insight and advice from contributors to this thread.

Mech33

Call Porsche a Customer Committment at 1-800-Porsche and open a case number about your issue. They can generally get it escalated to help you.

Alan C.

Here's a solution to the issue with your cracked pucks and seals. They have both front and rear. You can also purchase only the boots and seals. You don't need new calipers.

Keep in mind if the dealer says he won't warrant the parts and wants to sell you new calipers his profit margin goes up quite a bit. PAG isn't too shop friendly with their warranty repair rates.

http://www.racingbrake.com/SearchRes...nsive_Search=Y

Spyerx

if you use car on track do not expect the dealer to warranty wear components. brakes, the ENTIRE system are wear components. pads, rotors, calipers, pistons, all that.

this external seals don't make a difference. best to have them fresh, not a big deal though.

the pucks are an issue. you don't need new calipers. at this point you can't source the pucks but there are pistons you can use. these ceramic pucks pretty much suck ask the 997 and cup guys, they've been cracking for years.

Porsche has not made any parts available for these brakes. its bull****. 997 cars you can get all the parts. Its like with the PDK tranny, disposable. Just rip it out and replace.

anyway your pic is hard to see. need more. and more details on what dealer says problem is.

JRitt@essex

As everyone else said, we would need more info to help you assess whether or not you're being taken for a ride by your dealer!

As for your ultimate solution, you really need to be looking at both performance and long-term running costs before sinking any money into your brakes. If the dealer is going to replace your discs under warranty, then obviously it makes sense to take them. That said, you may want to pull them from the car immediately afterwards, put them on the shelf for when you sell your car in a few years, and install something more suited to heavy track use.

If your dealer is going to charge you for new OEM discs, you may want to kindly say, "No thank you," and consider an alternative. We (Essex/AP Racing) have a great alternative option that will perform better and save a substantial sum of money in the long run. We offer AP Racing two-piece replacement discs in the OEM 991 GT3 sizes (iron only, not PCCB), which are virtually identical to what we are using in professional racing. We also currently have a host of customers on this board running them successfully. You can read all about them in this thread.

One of the big benefits of running our discs over stock is that they tend to run considerably cooler. They flow a lot more air due to the internal vane design. As such, your disc temperature stays lower, and everything else around them stays cooler...brake pads, caliper pistons, ceramic piston nose, caliper seals, brake fluid, wheel bearings, ball joints...everything. That means less wear and tear on the corner as a whole, and your calipers and other associated parts won't see the same level of abuse in the future.

Do The Math

I always tell my track day customers to just run the numbers if they want to see how much money they can save over a few years by moving away from OEM components. One thing that we have proven over and over on many platforms through the years is that our discs last considerably longer than OEM discs. When you're doing the math, it's pretty much always going to be a safe assumption that if you got X miles out of an OEM set of discs, you will be getting X + Y miles out of our discs before they are cracked too heavily for further use. In some cases our discs last twice as long or more. We don't have enough miles and data points on 991 GT3's to put a firm number on this yet, but we will eventually.

I'm going to take a stab here and say that the typical enthusiast on this forum will own their car for 4 years at most. By then they'll be looking at the next GT3, an RS, or the latest, tastiest new toy to hit the track. Let's look at the numbers over four years with some conservative estimates. To keep things simple, let's assume you're going to burn through one set of front and rear discs per year. At the beginning of each year you will buy a new set of discs.

OEM 991 GT3 drilled disc pricing
Front=$1295
Rear= $1196
Total= $2491

The OEM discs are pretty nice for an OEM disc, but they still have some deficiencies. Most notably, they are drilled. Drilled discs crack more easily than slotted or plain face discs under heavy use, period. It doesn't matter if the holes are cast in, etc. Holes in discs create stress risers and temperature gradients. That's why you'll always see drilled discs cracking on the edge of the holes first. The OEM discs also don't have an internal vane design that will flow as much air as the 72 vane AP Racing discs we offer.

First year disc costs= $0 (your discs came on your car and they're a sunk cost)
Second year disc costs= $2491
Third year disc costs= $2491
Fourth year disc costs= $2491
Total disc costs over four years= Hold on a second...when it's time to sell your car, you'll now need to buy another set of discs for $2491 (assuming you don't want it to look like a complete track *****). On the day you sell your car you've bought four sets of OEM discs for $9,964.

Essex/AP Racing J Hook Disc pricing
Front 2-piece=$1798
Rear 2-piece= $1798
Total= $3596

This scenario assumes that at delivery you remove the OEM discs and put them on the shelf, so you can reinstall them when you sell your car. Here is where you'll see one of the major differences in price. Our iron friction rings can be replaced once they crack, while the aluminum hat is reused.

Pair of front AP Racing iron rings= $798 +$50 for attachment hardware= $848
Pair of rear AP Racing iron rings= $798 +$50 for attachment hardware= $848
Total AP Racing front and rear spare disc package= $1696

Let's go through the years in the same manner as we did with the OEM discs.
First year costs= $3596 (initial purchase of 2-piece discs)
Second year costs= $1696 (iron rings and mounting hardware)
Third year costs= $1696
Fourth year costs= $1696
Total= $8,684

On the day you sell your car you've bought four sets of AP Racing for $8,684. Here's the beautiful part...you still have $2491 worth of brand spanking new OEM discs on your garage shelf, waiting to be put back on the car at the time of sale! So not only have you spent $1200 less on absolute dollar terms, you're now also able to sell your AP Racing discs on the used market and recoup a nice chunk of money.

Again, the above calculations assume you are getting the same wear rates out of the OEM and AP Racing discs, which you will not be. The more additional miles you get out of the AP's, the more you will save. The longer you own and run your car, the more money you will save. The more frequently you take your car to the track and burn up discs, the more money you will save. In the interim, you'll be also be gaining all of the other benefits of the AP Racing discs: Since our discs run cooler, you won't be burning up pads as quickly, or needing to bleed your brakes as often. As mentioned above, you'll also have less wear and tear on calipers, bearings, etc...plus the bonus of a slight loss in unsprung weight, your brakes will be less prone to pad and fluid fade...the list goes on.

Hopefully the above illustrates how important it is to take a long-term strategy when you're planning out your consumable usage and making product decisions. The amount of savings can be quite significant. I've had a few customers ask me about some of our competitors products lately, so let's take a look at one more example for comparison. It further illustrates the importance of consumable pricing.

In terms of product specification I would acknowledge that Brembo is likely our closest competitor in this arena. They make a nice product, but on top of their slightly higher initial purchase price ($1895 per pair vs. $1798), their replacement iron is $595 each + $85 for each set of attachment hardware. That's a difference of $256 for each disc/hardware setup.

Brembo disc pricing
Front 2-piece=$1895
Rear 2-piece= $1895
Total= $3790

Pair of front Brembo iron rings ($595 per iron ring + $85 per hardware set)= $1190 +$170 for attachment hardware= $1360
Pair of rear Brembo iron rings= $1190 +$170 for attachment hardware= $1360

Total Brembo spare disc package= $2720

Through the years...
First year costs= $3790
Second year costs= $2720
Third year costs= $2720
Fourth year costs= $2720
Total= $11,950

As with the AP's, you would still have your fresh OEM set on the shelf, and wouldn't need to buy them to prep the car for sale. That said, you'd have spent $3,266 more on the Brembo's over the four years than you would have on the AP Racing J Hooks ($11,950 minus $8,684). That's enough to pay for a new set of front and rear racing brake pads each year, a set of tires and a spare wheel, 326 gallons of race fuel, pay for a flight to the factory to see your next car built...you get the point. The bottom line is that every time you replace a set of Brembo discs, you're spending $1,000 more than you would replacing the AP Racing discs. That adds up in a hurry.

One last time...think your consumable usage through in terms of long-term solutions over the course of ownership, not just looking at your toes.

ps
To the OP...if you aren't familiar with AP Racing, they recently won their 750th Formula 1 race as a brake and clutch supplier, and they're widely considered the leading brake technology provider in professional racing.

Clark-ApexPerformance

Jeff,
Thanks very much for your cost analysis of all available options including OEM.
That said ......we stock all the AP options....996,997 and 991 GT3. Also we have the Ferodo pads that seem to be preferd over PFC 11 compound.

TRAKCAR

+1 i can totally follow Jeffs math. I looked at the length of the post and almost phoned my CPA at first...

Clark-ApexPerformance

orthojoe

Count me in as a fan of the AP rotors. I have 8 track days on these rotors right now using ferodo DS1.11 pads. 3 of those 8 days were at Laguna seca, which is a rough track on brakes. The rotors look like they are just getting started. Contrast with the brembo type III rotors I used on my Spyder that only lasted 12 days.