orthojoe

Can someone explain to me what ESC off does and how it differs from ESC + TC off?

I read through the manual that was kindly posted, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

Traditionally, I thought that TC is a system that limits throttle input. I would rather be in full control of the throttle rather than the computer. I thought that stability control allows the computer to control brake at each individual wheel. By this definition, I would rather have ESC on and TC off, rather than ESC off and TC on. However, there is no option for ESC on and TC off. Am I understanding this correctly?

Mike in CA

Joe, I think you understand perfectly what ESC and TC are and what they do. TC uses throttle and brake intervention to limit wheelspin and ESC uses yaw, lateral acceleration, and steering input sensors with brake intervention and the active brake differential to maintain stability. Also, you're correct, the two stages in the GT3 are either ESC off or both ESC and TC off.

AFAIK, there is no way to leave ESC on and turn TC off.

orthojoe

Thanks, Mike. It's strange to me because that seems counterintuitive to what someone would want. I would rather have the computer control individual wheel braking while I have full control of the throttle rather than the other way around...

Mike in CA

I agree. I don't know if there are technical or theoretical reasons for why Porsche designed it that way.

Jooyoung99

Isn't it because TC is part of the ESC. So without TC, you can't have ESC. But you can turn off ESC, but have TC. Which is how I like to drive because I use throttle as on and off switch.

SamFromTX

Wouldn't allowing TC off counteracts any potential benefits fro ESC as you are forcing the car to go in a "perceived" wrong direction? That would be my guess. Joe, don't worry as you will be very surprised how late ESC intervenes in this car, almost never obtrusive. I can't say the same about TC, though; there were/are numerous times that I wanted more throttle but didn't get it. The car is very forgiving and easy to catch so driving with all off is unlikely to cause a spin, unless you make a big mistake.

SamFromTX

Can't do that in this car, TC intervenes late (not as late as ESC) and if you generate enough force, you are likely to oversteer and lose control as you overpower ESC

Zulu Alpha

The way how I interpret this subject is:

When having all the system on, the car will allow some leeway of dynamic performance. When ESC OFF is activated, stability control is off and traction control is relaxed more than the system being on. Think of it like Ferrari's "Side-Slip Control." This is to ensure when you are just beyond the limit of traction on corner exit (power slide) the traction control will trim some throttle out.

PC Valkyrie

Some clarification about stability control and traction control. They are 2 different things and serve different functions.

Stability control: will brake individual wheels (front and/or rear) and/or cut engine power to correct for understeer or oversteer when cornering.

Traction control: will brake individual drive (rear) wheels and/or cut engine power to prevent unnecessary wheel spin when accelerating.

For my purposes, when I track, i would prefer to turn the traction control off and leave the stability control on for safety purposes so I don't oversteer off the track if I screw up. Unfortunately, this combination of settings is not available.

orthojoe

?? What? Why? Hopefully not on track unless you're a beginner still learning.
Driving 101: The throttle is not a switch.

Thanks, Sam. The cut in throttle is what I don't want. I'm not surprised that ESC isn't obtrusive, but very surprised that throttle cut cannot be removed without removing ESC at all. I know people frown on driving with ESC on, but I'm in the camp where I still would rather take the car home in one piece in case something unforeseeable occurs, than wear a badge that says "I turn off all nannies" with a totaled car. With the spyder, I can drive it pretty hard and fast without PSM intervening (even if I were to turn it off, it turns back on if ABS activates anyway).

Thanks. Agree with you completely and find it surprising that you can't turn off TC without also removing ESC. It should be the other way around. That's the way it worked in my old EVO. The throttle cut was horrible and had to be turned off as soon as you stepped foot on track....

SamFromTX

Yes, I agree. Annoying to me as well during the occasional times I need more throttle in a counter steer but have gotten used to it. I am like you, don't care who thinks what because I drive with ESC on. It doesn't interfere unless the car is going beyond the point of being saved. It's truly amazing.

Drifting

Good thread.

So if Porsche won't let us turn off TC preferentially for the desired reasons stated above, can anyone of you see the benefit or just turning off ESC on the track or on the road?

AFAIK, it seems to be an all or nothing situation. I would just turn all nannies off or leave all of them on.

One further question. If you turn the nannies off, what primary electronic controls still remain on the car?
ABS would stay on I assume. Does PTV still do most of its work the same with ESC/TC turned off?
Same question for the electronic LSD?

orthojoe

I agree with you here. To me, it's all or nothing since I prefer to have total control of the throttle to myself.

I believe ABS, PTV, and eLSD are all still active regardless.

Drifting

I would also highly prefer to be the only one controlling the throttle.
I think I will run my car on the track with ESC and TC turned off.

I would rather control as much of the driving as possible and feel what the car is doing rather than have the computer decide for me.

mqandil

+1 I agree completely with you. I too would rather have control of the throttle to allow me to apply throttle while doing counter steer, and still have the safety net of the esc if I make a terrible mistake. I would think this would provide greater control of the car and better chance to recover from a potential spin.

I am wondering if there is anyone offering a hack or third party software that would allow us to turn TC off and keep ESC on. Just curious. Mark