PDK S v. Manual
02-11-2016, 07:58 PM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
PDK S v. Manual
What would you order if given a choice, PDK S or MT in the next 1.2 GT3 and why? I personally would take the PDK S b/c to me I find it just as exciting (well almost) and eventually I would get tired of the shifting in traffic.
02-11-2016, 08:15 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
How's this for heresy?? I'm not sure between PDK S and manual -- love the PDK in my 991TT but having driven the GT4 on track I wouldn't have a manual without an auto-blipper again.
02-11-2016, 08:20 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
You should lock this thread and redo it with a poll with the voter visible. You might get more data.
02-11-2016, 08:21 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
But, that's not to say I wouldn't want the option for both on every car. You know what is going on - the GT4 doesn't have PDK-S because it would be faster than a 911. And, Porsche wont repeat the 944 Turbo S is faster than the 911 scenario ever again.
Dan (tosses a couple of round coppers)
02-11-2016, 08:32 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
02-11-2016, 08:32 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
Everyone knows my choice and I'm on the list. Why? Many reasons discussed ad nauseam...
May I ask if you don't mind,why do you drive the GT3 if there's a good chance you'll get stuck in traffic? I understand is unavoidable at some point,but I've always looked at the GT3 as a fun car...a car you'd drive occasionally for the pleasure of driving,on the street or track. I certainly wouldn't buy one if I drove it everyday on some poor roads with heavy traffic. I would drive one everyday though if my commute meant great driving empty roads!
One last point : there is a very special feeling getting in a good sports car after you've driven boring SUVs and such all week,so in a way,one can lose that feeling if they drive it everyday...
May I ask if you don't mind,why do you drive the GT3 if there's a good chance you'll get stuck in traffic? I understand is unavoidable at some point,but I've always looked at the GT3 as a fun car...a car you'd drive occasionally for the pleasure of driving,on the street or track. I certainly wouldn't buy one if I drove it everyday on some poor roads with heavy traffic. I would drive one everyday though if my commute meant great driving empty roads!
One last point : there is a very special feeling getting in a good sports car after you've driven boring SUVs and such all week,so in a way,one can lose that feeling if they drive it everyday...
02-11-2016, 08:37 PM
#7
Before the three pedal zealots arise and whip out the peters, know that the PDK is awesome, especially when driving hard. I love a manual but I've been just blown away by how good this PDK is when I push the car hard. Mountain drives are so much more fun knowing you can grab the gear you want instantaneously any time you want. Where I miss rowing gears sometimes is in town.
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02-11-2016, 08:37 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
I hope you don't mind if I make an innocent joke : I've always thought of Charles Bronson the actor for some reason when seeing your screen name. 
Last edited by neanicu; 08-31-2016 at 09:02 AM.
02-11-2016, 08:38 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Everyone knows my choice and I'm on the list. Why? Many reasons discussed ad nauseam...
May I ask if you don't mind,why do you drive the GT3 if there's a good chance you'll get stuck in traffic? I understand is unavoidable at some point,but I've always looked at the GT3 as a fun car...a car you'd drive occasionally for the pleasure of driving,on the street or track. I certainly wouldn't buy one if I drove it everyday on some poor roads with heavy traffic. I would drive one everyday though if my commute meant great driving empty roads!
One last point : there is a very special feeling getting in a good sports car after you've driven boring SUVs and such all week,so in a way,one can lose that feeling if they drive it everyday...
May I ask if you don't mind,why do you drive the GT3 if there's a good chance you'll get stuck in traffic? I understand is unavoidable at some point,but I've always looked at the GT3 as a fun car...a car you'd drive occasionally for the pleasure of driving,on the street or track. I certainly wouldn't buy one if I drove it everyday on some poor roads with heavy traffic. I would drive one everyday though if my commute meant great driving empty roads!
One last point : there is a very special feeling getting in a good sports car after you've driven boring SUVs and such all week,so in a way,one can lose that feeling if they drive it everyday...
Trust me, I don't look for traffic but at times it's unavoidable.
02-11-2016, 08:58 PM
#10
Bronson, it's a tough call. It really is, and I have thought about it a lot more than I should given that I a. Supposed to be, you know, working and stuff. I don't think I can justify two of the GT cars at the same time, though I am going to look at some 997.2s, probably an RS in the summer if I can.
I dithered for a long time - 2015 - about whether to get a 7.2 or a 991. I chose the 991 and what I found was that I really, really enjoy it. It is a bigger thrill than I expected, and so far - with limited experience - I have to say I really like the PDK-S. That said, I have an older M3 (it wasn't older when we got it!) which I have largely adjusted to be as I want it,,and it is a 6MT and the transmission is pretty much exactly as I want it: short, very positive throw and short-travel clutch with rapid but controllable engagement. One thing that makes the M3 so much fun is that it isn't as torquey as the GT3, bit still revs nice and high with a good kick. Do I need or want a GT3 which is to some extent a 2-seat version of same with "more"? I am not sure. I put myself down for the R though I don't expect an allocation. I am hopeful for an allocation of the 1.2. If my number comes up on the R I think I will have to try and run it and the current GT3 at the same time for at least a few months to really see which I prefer. If I don't get that opportunity then I will have a seriously difficult time should there be a 1.2 allocation and a transmission choice.
You ask "why" and I think the answer lies in age, skill, and perception.
In age I am exactly halfway between you and AC. My reflexes and stamina are still good, but they are not as good as they were, especially since my back got hurt. There are times when driving the M3 in and around NYC and GTA when I want the visceral joy of the car, but I'd like to stop declutching! I am not sure I want to take the GT3 to either city, but OTOH I think it will become difficult to say "no" to myself every time it beckons. And I think the drive between the two could be fun in the GT3 - is there any big difference between a long highway cruise in a 6MT and a PDK-S? I will find out later this year.
In terms of skill, I may not have the full breadth of it needed to do justice to a 7MT GT3. I feel somewhat like I can exploit more of the car with the PDK-S, though I also suspect I can just get into trouble quicker and with less connection to what's going on. I need experience, but my skill level sort of suggests PDK-S again to me.
Perception is the biggest issue. To me the GT3 simply seems to big and heavy to be labeled a sports car. It's a GT. It's a hell of a GT, and it seems to be lacking in seats for a GT, but it doesn't have the lightness I associate with a true sports car - though it has the instancy. I would guess that >80% of my use will be on the street. Depending on perspective that could suggest either MT or PDK, I need more time to find out. I will say that until making the decision to get the 991 I had absolutely vowed off ever having a non-manual-clutch car again. I haven't aged THAT much in three months, but I have definitely broadened my outlook a bit.
To Neanicu: I use an SUV as sparingly as I can. Even in winter, if it's dry, bare, and salt-free I drive an M3 unless it's too cold for the tires. In summer I don't use an SUV at all. So I am likely to want to use the GT3 for ordinary trips, and why the Hell shouldn't every trip be fun? You live in this area. You know that one WILL encounter some form of traffic annoyance on almost every trip. I am surprised and a little sheepish to find that the idea of PDK-S in those circs does appeal to this MT diehard.
Apologies for overwriting. I am waiting around for someone and needed to amuse myself.
I dithered for a long time - 2015 - about whether to get a 7.2 or a 991. I chose the 991 and what I found was that I really, really enjoy it. It is a bigger thrill than I expected, and so far - with limited experience - I have to say I really like the PDK-S. That said, I have an older M3 (it wasn't older when we got it!) which I have largely adjusted to be as I want it,,and it is a 6MT and the transmission is pretty much exactly as I want it: short, very positive throw and short-travel clutch with rapid but controllable engagement. One thing that makes the M3 so much fun is that it isn't as torquey as the GT3, bit still revs nice and high with a good kick. Do I need or want a GT3 which is to some extent a 2-seat version of same with "more"? I am not sure. I put myself down for the R though I don't expect an allocation. I am hopeful for an allocation of the 1.2. If my number comes up on the R I think I will have to try and run it and the current GT3 at the same time for at least a few months to really see which I prefer. If I don't get that opportunity then I will have a seriously difficult time should there be a 1.2 allocation and a transmission choice.
You ask "why" and I think the answer lies in age, skill, and perception.
In age I am exactly halfway between you and AC. My reflexes and stamina are still good, but they are not as good as they were, especially since my back got hurt. There are times when driving the M3 in and around NYC and GTA when I want the visceral joy of the car, but I'd like to stop declutching! I am not sure I want to take the GT3 to either city, but OTOH I think it will become difficult to say "no" to myself every time it beckons. And I think the drive between the two could be fun in the GT3 - is there any big difference between a long highway cruise in a 6MT and a PDK-S? I will find out later this year.
In terms of skill, I may not have the full breadth of it needed to do justice to a 7MT GT3. I feel somewhat like I can exploit more of the car with the PDK-S, though I also suspect I can just get into trouble quicker and with less connection to what's going on. I need experience, but my skill level sort of suggests PDK-S again to me.
Perception is the biggest issue. To me the GT3 simply seems to big and heavy to be labeled a sports car. It's a GT. It's a hell of a GT, and it seems to be lacking in seats for a GT, but it doesn't have the lightness I associate with a true sports car - though it has the instancy. I would guess that >80% of my use will be on the street. Depending on perspective that could suggest either MT or PDK, I need more time to find out. I will say that until making the decision to get the 991 I had absolutely vowed off ever having a non-manual-clutch car again. I haven't aged THAT much in three months, but I have definitely broadened my outlook a bit.
To Neanicu: I use an SUV as sparingly as I can. Even in winter, if it's dry, bare, and salt-free I drive an M3 unless it's too cold for the tires. In summer I don't use an SUV at all. So I am likely to want to use the GT3 for ordinary trips, and why the Hell shouldn't every trip be fun? You live in this area. You know that one WILL encounter some form of traffic annoyance on almost every trip. I am surprised and a little sheepish to find that the idea of PDK-S in those circs does appeal to this MT diehard.
Apologies for overwriting. I am waiting around for someone and needed to amuse myself.
02-11-2016, 09:06 PM
#11
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Charles Bronson (Buchinsky) was a great actor, loved most of his films. One tough dude, certainly tougher than me.
02-11-2016, 09:10 PM
#12
I didn't get the 991 GT3 because a GT3 to me means manual. I did get a 991 base manual as a DD (it is actually pretty fun) anticipating the 991.2 GT3 in manual. If it comes in manual, I will do the trade, if not I will keep DDing my 991.
As Dan (above) mentioned, a transmission choice is the perfect solution.
Some of us don't care about shift times, some of care about engagement. The shorter gearing of the 991 GT3 is great, and I hope they provide those short gears for the 991.2 in manual. The above said, I will never sell my 997 GT3.
As Dan (above) mentioned, a transmission choice is the perfect solution.
Some of us don't care about shift times, some of care about engagement. The shorter gearing of the 991 GT3 is great, and I hope they provide those short gears for the 991.2 in manual. The above said, I will never sell my 997 GT3.
02-11-2016, 09:21 PM
#13
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Bronson, it's a tough call. It really is, and I have thought about it a lot more than I should given that I a. Supposed to be, you know, working and stuff. I don't think I can justify two of the GT cars at the same time, though I am going to look at some 997.2s, probably an RS in the summer if I can.
I dithered for a long time - 2015 - about whether to get a 7.2 or a 991. I chose the 991 and what I found was that I really, really enjoy it. It is a bigger thrill than I expected, and so far - with limited experience - I have to say I really like the PDK-S. That said, I have an older M3 (it wasn't older when we got it!) which I have largely adjusted to be as I want it,,and it is a 6MT and the transmission is pretty much exactly as I want it: short, very positive throw and short-travel clutch with rapid but controllable engagement. One thing that makes the M3 so much fun is that it isn't as torquey as the GT3, bit still revs nice and high with a good kick. Do I need or want a GT3 which is to some extent a 2-seat version of same with "more"? I am not sure. I put myself down for the R though I don't expect an allocation. I am hopeful for an allocation of the 1.2. If my number comes up on the R I think I will have to try and run it and the current GT3 at the same time for at least a few months to really see which I prefer. If I don't get that opportunity then I will have a seriously difficult time should there be a 1.2 allocation and a transmission choice.
You ask "why" and I think the answer lies in age, skill, and perception.
In age I am exactly halfway between you and AC. My reflexes and stamina are still good, but they are not as good as they were, especially since my back got hurt. There are times when driving the M3 in and around NYC and GTA when I want the visceral joy of the car, but I'd like to stop declutching! I am not sure I want to take the GT3 to either city, but OTOH I think it will become difficult to say "no" to myself every time it beckons. And I think the drive between the two could be fun in the GT3 - is there any big difference between a long highway cruise in a 6MT and a PDK-S? I will find out later this year.
In terms of skill, I may not have the full breadth of it needed to do justice to a 7MT GT3. I feel somewhat like I can exploit more of the car with the PDK-S, though I also suspect I can just get into trouble quicker and with less connection to what's going on. I need experience, but my skill level sort of suggests PDK-S again to me.
Perception is the biggest issue. To me the GT3 simply seems to big and heavy to be labeled a sports car. It's a GT. It's a hell of a GT, and it seems to be lacking in seats for a GT, but it doesn't have the lightness I associate with a true sports car - though it has the instancy. I would guess that >80% of my use will be on the street. Depending on perspective that could suggest either MT or PDK, I need more time to find out. I will say that until making the decision to get the 991 I had absolutely vowed off ever having a non-manual-clutch car again. I haven't aged THAT much in three months, but I have definitely broadened my outlook a bit.
To Neanicu: I use an SUV as sparingly as I can. Even in winter, if it's dry, bare, and salt-free I drive an M3 unless it's too cold for the tires. In summer I don't use an SUV at all. So I am likely to want to use the GT3 for ordinary trips, and why the Hell shouldn't every trip be fun? You live in this area. You know that one WILL encounter some form of traffic annoyance on almost every trip. I am surprised and a little sheepish to find that the idea of PDK-S in those circs does appeal to this MT diehard.
Apologies for overwriting. I am waiting around for someone and needed to amuse myself.
I dithered for a long time - 2015 - about whether to get a 7.2 or a 991. I chose the 991 and what I found was that I really, really enjoy it. It is a bigger thrill than I expected, and so far - with limited experience - I have to say I really like the PDK-S. That said, I have an older M3 (it wasn't older when we got it!) which I have largely adjusted to be as I want it,,and it is a 6MT and the transmission is pretty much exactly as I want it: short, very positive throw and short-travel clutch with rapid but controllable engagement. One thing that makes the M3 so much fun is that it isn't as torquey as the GT3, bit still revs nice and high with a good kick. Do I need or want a GT3 which is to some extent a 2-seat version of same with "more"? I am not sure. I put myself down for the R though I don't expect an allocation. I am hopeful for an allocation of the 1.2. If my number comes up on the R I think I will have to try and run it and the current GT3 at the same time for at least a few months to really see which I prefer. If I don't get that opportunity then I will have a seriously difficult time should there be a 1.2 allocation and a transmission choice.
You ask "why" and I think the answer lies in age, skill, and perception.
In age I am exactly halfway between you and AC. My reflexes and stamina are still good, but they are not as good as they were, especially since my back got hurt. There are times when driving the M3 in and around NYC and GTA when I want the visceral joy of the car, but I'd like to stop declutching! I am not sure I want to take the GT3 to either city, but OTOH I think it will become difficult to say "no" to myself every time it beckons. And I think the drive between the two could be fun in the GT3 - is there any big difference between a long highway cruise in a 6MT and a PDK-S? I will find out later this year.
In terms of skill, I may not have the full breadth of it needed to do justice to a 7MT GT3. I feel somewhat like I can exploit more of the car with the PDK-S, though I also suspect I can just get into trouble quicker and with less connection to what's going on. I need experience, but my skill level sort of suggests PDK-S again to me.
Perception is the biggest issue. To me the GT3 simply seems to big and heavy to be labeled a sports car. It's a GT. It's a hell of a GT, and it seems to be lacking in seats for a GT, but it doesn't have the lightness I associate with a true sports car - though it has the instancy. I would guess that >80% of my use will be on the street. Depending on perspective that could suggest either MT or PDK, I need more time to find out. I will say that until making the decision to get the 991 I had absolutely vowed off ever having a non-manual-clutch car again. I haven't aged THAT much in three months, but I have definitely broadened my outlook a bit.
To Neanicu: I use an SUV as sparingly as I can. Even in winter, if it's dry, bare, and salt-free I drive an M3 unless it's too cold for the tires. In summer I don't use an SUV at all. So I am likely to want to use the GT3 for ordinary trips, and why the Hell shouldn't every trip be fun? You live in this area. You know that one WILL encounter some form of traffic annoyance on almost every trip. I am surprised and a little sheepish to find that the idea of PDK-S in those circs does appeal to this MT diehard.
Apologies for overwriting. I am waiting around for someone and needed to amuse myself.
02-11-2016, 09:23 PM
#14
Race Director
My GT3 isn't my DD so getting stuck in traffic is rarely an issue and not a determining factor in choosing a gearbox.
I love MT's and for some cars I would have nothing but. I can't imagine a PDK style box in any number of sports and other cars that I've owned. But for others a sophisticated auto-manual or excellent performing automatic has been the best choice.
The best way for me to answer bronson's question is to look back over the last two years of 991.1 GT3 ownership and ask myself; how often when driving the car, in all the various road and track situations I've experienced, have I missed having a manual? To be honest, maybe 20% of the time I miss the stick and clutch and think that it might be fun to have a manual option in the GT3. The other 80% I just wouldn't trade the PDK-S gearbox.
So, 80% versus 20%. I guess my choice of gearbox in a 991.2 GT3 should be obvious.
I love MT's and for some cars I would have nothing but. I can't imagine a PDK style box in any number of sports and other cars that I've owned. But for others a sophisticated auto-manual or excellent performing automatic has been the best choice.
The best way for me to answer bronson's question is to look back over the last two years of 991.1 GT3 ownership and ask myself; how often when driving the car, in all the various road and track situations I've experienced, have I missed having a manual? To be honest, maybe 20% of the time I miss the stick and clutch and think that it might be fun to have a manual option in the GT3. The other 80% I just wouldn't trade the PDK-S gearbox.
So, 80% versus 20%. I guess my choice of gearbox in a 991.2 GT3 should be obvious.
02-11-2016, 09:23 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
I would take an 8 speed PDK-S, where I would shift gears 1-2-3 routinely under 80 mph, allowing me to hear the higher RPMs. I would also take the 6 speed gear box, with reasonable gearing. Wouldn't want the 7 speed manual.