usctrojanGT3

So looks like prices are around $75k +/- based upon the results on this auction below (of course the seller was looking for more so the reserve was not met)...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252232900381...84.m1435.l2649

Now, here's an auction for a Lava RS with no reserve price so it will sell. Starting price is about $75k over and someone took the opening bid....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172051708723?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I think the car will sell for less than $300k.

Archimedes

That doesn't tell you the market value, just the bid side of the bid/ask spread, as the seller did not accept the bid at $75k over...

usctrojanGT3

Ummm, it shows you what a market buyer is willing to pay so it does tell me what the market value is for the car because isn't the value what someone is willing to BUY it for? It's not the buyer's fault that the seller is delusional in his asking price and has a reserve price over $300k. Same goes for a home, if it doesn't sell and sits on the market at the list price that means it's overpriced. Hence why you see so many RSs sitting and collecting dust priced at over $300k.

My belief is that market value for RSs is around $75k +/- (depending on options and color) and that number is heading down with the stock market meltdown.

Archimedes

I don't think you understand what the term fair market value means...

It's the price at which a transaction does/would actually occur between a willing buyer and a willing seller. It's not what a buyer offers. That's called a bid. And what the seller requests is the ask. Unless a transaction occurs, you can't rely on either as evidence of market value.

The seller could just as easily argue that the buyer is delusional in his offer price.

usctrojanGT3

And I can argue that the seller is delusional. It's a freaking Ebay auction with huge exposure...you had multiple bidders on the car. It wasn't a one-on-one negotiation with a low ball tire kicker. The highest bid was $275k so to me that's the value of the car since that's what someone is willing to pay for it regardless of whether the seller accepts it or not.

Regardless, we have a no reserve auction on the Lava RS so we will find out that the clearing price on the car is. You could clearly see that the seller is willing to accept $285k for the car as that was the opening bid without a reserve. There's your $75k over. We'll see if it ends up being more next week.

Oh and your definitely of FAIR MARKET VALUE is WRONG!!!!

"Fair market value (FMV) is an estimate of the market value of a property, based on what a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured buyer would probably pay to a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured seller in the market."

misterwaterfall

Im hoping this brings a bit of a correction to the gt3/rs market as a whole

usctrojanGT3

We are already seeing the cracks with China and commodities (especially oil). This is not the time to be a speculator on an RS.

llstuey

Read down 1 para on your Wikipedia quote... Regardless, the point Archimedes is making is that you don't need to estimate anything when you have observable trades around a bid ask spread. You posted 1 data point for an ask that didn't trade... Look, I agree the prices are crazy but I would cobble some real info on trades (like a reasonable sample size and over a reasonable time frame) before saying the "the market is 75 over". They do a nice job of this in the carrera gt sub forum btw. Cheers

misterwaterfall

If I could short the luxury auto market I would. Instead I am just waiting until this time next year to pick one up. We'll see if that's a good plan or not in due time.

Archimedes

Wow, where to start. First, lets start with the definition of FMV. It's defined by the IRS (and accepted by the appraisal community) as follows:

“The price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy or to sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant facts.”


Emphasis on the 'would change hands' part, which you seem to be confusing with bid prices.

But don't let that get in the way of your weekly whine about RS prices.

Archimedes

Unless of course the smart money is betting against the market at the moment, meaning a meltdown would actually afford them an ever greater ability to pay a premium for high dollar goods...

Guest89

It's not weekly; it's hourly. Supremely annoying.

lumber

I imagine you sitting outside of auto gallery in your free time holding a sign telling people not to overpay for an rs.

0to60

Stock markets falling, oil under 30 a barrel. Deflation is everywhere just be patient on these cars.

usctrojanGT3

haha I would if I didn't have 2 jobs.