Tom Tweed

The Michelin Sport Cup 2 is a fine tire. I like it, but it's scarce right now and expensive. The Pirelli Trofeo R sounds good, but it's even more expensive and doesn't seem to wear as well as the Michelins. Even if you get 19" rims, there aren't a lot of choices out there other than the Hoosier R7.

I have made requests to Bridgestone and Nitto to produce their RE-71R and NT01 tires in 19" and 20" sizes for the Porsche GT3 and GT4, and there are plenty of folks here that would like to run those tires. I would like to see everybody blitz these companies with requests. If enough people contact them, they might realize there's a ready market for their product.

There's a thread going on in the GT4 forum about this issue, and I wanted to bring it over to the GT3 forum to expand the audience, and make it easy for people to put in their request.

Here's the contact info for the Bridgestone service center:
(866) 775-6480
Monday – Friday 8:00 am – 10:00 pm (Eastern Time)
Saturday – Sunday 8:00 am – 8:00 pm (Eastern Time)

The Nitto Consumer Relations number is 888-529-8200
Monday-Friday 8:00 am - 5:00 pm (Pacific Time) or use their online size request form: http://www.nittotire.com/find-a-tire...t-a-tire-size/

Ask them to please make 20 inch RE-71R and NT01 tires to fit the latest Porsche cars:
255/35-20 with a 26.8" diameter would be perfect for the front of GT3/4s (265s if you're really aggressive about front width)
245/35-20 with a 26.8" diameter would also work for the front of all 991s and 981s
295/30-20 with a 26.8" to 27" diameter would be perfect for the rear of GT4s or 991s
305/30-20 or 315/30-20 with a 27.2" diameter for 991 GT3, Turbos, and 991s (315 or 325s if you want to get aggressive with rear grip).

Nitto already makes a 315/30Z-20 in 27.48" diameter, which is a little tall, but if they just built a 255/35-20 in a 27.1" diameter for the front of the GT3 to match, it would make a lot of track rats happy.

If you have 19" rims, throw in a request for them as well. Nitto shows on their website a NT01 in 305/30-19 in 26.26" dia. and a 325/30-19 in 26.73" dia., so all we need is a front tire to match either of those, say a 245/35-19 in 25.8" dia. or a 265/35-19 in 26.3" dia.

There's strength in numbers--the more people who express interest, the sooner we might have some alternative tire choices available.

EDIT -- Let's add the Kumho V720 to this list of desired tires. After reading reports of them on the new Viper ACR, I would LOVE to have them built in GT3 sizes. I really liked the V710, and these new tires (only available now in ACR sizes) sound like an improvement. Call Kumho at 1-800-HI-KUMHO (445-8646) and beg for them, or email Kumho Product/Fitment Technical Support and Motorsports Information: TechSupport@KumhoTireUSA.com please!

Thx,
TT

R.Deacon

Hey Tom
Thanks for leading this off ; excellent; I just paid $$$ 2400 for a new set of cups only available to me thru dealer and my guys had to give Michelin my vin to get that set ( fresh set for winterfest)

a little OT but huge KUDO's to you for having the integrity to share your steering malfunction with all
good luck hunting those _______ rodents

mooty

tom, find MVEZ on RL
he seems to be instrumental in getting NITTO to do 305 for 997 gt3 in the past.
if they are willing to do nitto in GT4 sizes i would buy 200 tires and act as RL tire inventory?
sorry, that wont solve your issue. i don thave GT3, you took it from me ;-)

SmokinGTS

Tom
I am with you, we need tire choices. I have personally contacted Nitto and Hoosier. Rennlisted get behind this effort or we will be paying exorbitant tire prices for the foreseeable future with lackluster performance.

Karl911

It is a raw material issue for all tires.
Please read below;


Tire Raw-Material Shortage Triggers Race for Answer
Thomas Black and Jack Kaskey
June 12, 2014 — 10:48 AM EDT
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The shale boom that has boosted U.S. natural gas supplies is causing an unintended shortage of a key petrochemical used to make synthetic rubber for tires.
Manufacturing giants Honeywell International Inc. and BASF SE are touting rival solutions.
Butadiene, which the U.S. discovered could be turned into a rubber substitute during World War II after Asian supplies were cut off, is a byproduct of making plastics from oil-based naphtha. Shortages loom as plastics manufacturers switch their feedstock to less expensive ethane, a natural gas liquid which yields little butadiene.
That could lead to higher prices for motorists as tire makers pass along cost increases. The shale boom responsible for the problem may also provide the solution as Honeywell, in partnership with TPC Group Inc., and BASF working with Linde AG race to develop technology to produce butadiene from butane, a now plentiful natural gas liquid.
“Whenever there is a gap that opens up in the petrochemical world, people are going to throw capital and technology at it until they solve it,” John Roberts, a New York-based chemical industry analyst at UBS Securities LL, said in an interview.
The butadiene shortfall may be as little as 7 percent over the next decade if the industry shift to gas feedstocks is limited to North America, or as much as 27 percent if Europe and Asia embrace the trend, according to Honeywell.
Significant Shortages
Houston-based TPC Group, which plans to build a plant in 2017 or 2018 to produce butadiene by on-purpose production instead of capturing it as a byproduct, brought on Honeywell to update technology it hasn’t used since the 1980s, according to Chief Financial Officer Miguel Desdin. The company was acquired in 2012 by a consortium led by SK Capital Partners LP.
“In the medium and longer term, if demand picks up there’s going to be a significant shortage of butadiene because the supply has tightened,” Desdin said in an interview.
When butadiene doubled in 2011, tire makers tried to recoup lost margins by raising prices. Higher raw material costs eroded earnings at tire maker Michelin & Cie by an estimated 1.8 billion euros ($2.44 billion) that year and 500 million euros in 2012. Michelin in November said it’s researching butadiene production from plant materials in anticipation that shortages will return.
Honeywell and TPC plan to have technology for on-purpose production of butadiene ready by year end and are already talking with potential licensees, Jim Rekoske, petrochemical global business director for Honeywell’s UOP unit, said in a telephone interview. Demand could require as many as 20 to 30 plants worldwide, the companies said.
Honeywell’s UOP unit is the exclusive licensor of the technology, called OXO-D, the Morris Township, New Jersey-based company said in a statement today. The process can also convert excess butenes from oil refineries into butadiene.
Shale Boom
Gas has become cheaper as hydraulic fracturing or fracking boosts production from shale formations. The shale boom has spurred plans for a record $113 billion in chemical manufacturing investments, according to the American Chemistry Council.
BASF and companies such as Dow Chemical Co. and Westlake Chemical Corp. are converting U.S. factories that make chemicals from naphtha into ones that use lighter feedstock such as ethane. New factories planned by Dow and other companies will use ethane, constraining butadiene supplies.
While ethane and naphtha both yield ethylene, the most common petrochemical, ethane yields only about 14 percent of the butadiene that comes from naphtha processing. Ethane also yields less propylene and benzene.
Petrologistics LP is producing propylene, used to make paints, carpets and plastic bottle caps, from propane at its plant in Houston. At least six more plants are planned by Dow Chemical, Enterprise Products Partners Inc. and others. BASF plans to make propylene from methane.
Explosive Growth
Honeywell’s UOP unit has seen explosive growth in demand for propylene. It has licensed its technology for 22 propylene plants since 2011 after winning only 13 in the previous two decades, Rekoske said.
Honeywell UOP and TPC are ahead of their chief rivals, BASF and Linde, in bringing on-purpose butadiene to market. The German companies announced on June 3 that they will develop their process in a pilot plant in Ludwigshafen, Germany. They also plan to license their technology, though it’s too early to say when it will be commercially available, according to Silvia Mueller, a BASF spokeswoman.
“We are optimistic that we can offer a new best-in-class technology for the manufacturing of on-purpose butadiene to help producers meet the increasing global demand,” Mueller said.
High-Grip Tires
Butadiene prices climbed to $1,499 per metric ton in April from $1,190 in December, according to Nexant Inc. data compiled by Bloomberg. Butadiene has fluctuated in recent years, rising to $3,858 in August 2011 and falling as low as $610 in June 2009.
About 60 percent of the rubber used in the tire industry is synthetic, Clermont Ferrand, France-based Michelin said on its website. Synthetic rubber is best for high-grip tires, improves longevity and decreases rolling resistance, according to Michelin.
Several Chinese plants are being built for on-purpose butadiene production, two of which are expected to begin operations this year, Rekoske said. Those plants are using technology that hasn’t been proven, he added.
“We feel very confident that our technology is economically superior,” Rekoske said.

Tom Tweed

I'll PM him.

Are you going to try to run 255 or 265 on the front of the GT4? 19" or 20" rims? Same fronts would work on the GT3, you just need a 295 from Nitto for the rear also, whereas they have some rear GT3 sizes already.

I don't think about it as "taking" it from you, exactly, I figure I just scooped up one of the scraps that fell out of your warehouse.

TT

Tom Tweed

This article appears to be nearly 1-1/2 years old now. The market seems to be reacting to this shortage as it usually does, and I found a later article that seemed to imply that new capacity would be coming on line this year:
http://www.platts.com/news-feature/2...look/butadiene

Maybe there is a correction underway already?

TT

452gt3

Tom, I talked to the Bridgestone folks in Las Vegas about the sizing for the RE71R and their response was they were testing the market with the current sizes and if the demand was good they would offer other sizes later.

Tom Tweed

When I talked to them on the phone, they sounded even more positive, Mike--they said they planned to expand the size offerings considerably in the next year. The RE71R has been really well received so far, it seems to be the "street tire de jour" in the autocross world right now, so hopefully they will feel confident about building them in more sizes. Having a bunch of
folks request GT3/4 sizes couldn't hurt!

TT

Tom Tweed

I also talked to Jeff Speer at Hoosier last week to see how their plans to produce 20" A7/R7 tires in 2016 was going, and also asked if there were any plans to expand available sizes in 19". He said the 19" A7/R7 line is set for next year--no new sizes will be available. I was hoping they'd make an A7 in 265/35-19, since they only have a 235 for the front right now, but that's not going to happen. He did say that the 20" sizes will be produced next year, but the Corvette guys will get their's first, then the Porsche sizes will come out. I don't expect we will see anything until summer 2016 at earliest, probably more towards fall.

TT

Nick Yoskin

100000% agree

Tom Tweed

Bump to add the Kumho V720 ACR to the original post. We need these tires in GT3/GT4 sizes! Contact info:
Call Kumho at 1-800-HI-KUMHO (445-8646)
or email Kumho Product/Fitment Technical Support and Motorsports Information: TechSupport@KumhoTireUSA.com please!

I tried calling today and it seems the tech/motorsports folks there are out for the holidays, but they referred me to a fellow named Chris Han and said he would get back to me when he returned to the office. I'm going to follow up with an email so they don't lose track of me.

TT

porscheflat6

^ thanks for posting info!

Tom Tweed

I talked to Chris Han at Kumho tech support at length yesterday. He said the V720 line will indeed be expanded in phases over the next year, with the first 9 new sizes to be offered around March 2016. The original offering (other than the special ACR version for the Viper) was only 6 sizes, with the largest a 245/40-18. I pressed him for details about the sizes that might be coming out, especially if any might fit the 991 GT3. He said 20" sizes would be in the last phase, not due until early 2017. Although details were not available yet, he thought there were going to be some 19" sizes in the next phase, however, including a 245 and a 305. The bad news is that it sounded like they might not be in a suitable aspect ratio for the GT3. They are still under development, but it sounded like the 245 was scheduled to be a 40 series and the 305 a 30 series, which would mean that the diameters will be wrong for the 991, with the front tire being taller than the rear.

I'll be keeping an eye out for any final announcement about the new size specs next Spring, but it didn't look hopeful. One surprising thing he said was that Kumho is also reviving the V710 line in the near future with a bunch of new sizes. I really liked that tire for autocross use on a lighter (2200 lb.) 911, but I'm not sure how it would work on a 3300 lb. 991 GT3. If they came out with the right sizes, I would try them again, though. Time will tell, but it's hard to be patient....

TT

usctrojanGT3

Thanks for the effort Tom. I hope Kumho comes out with a rear tire that's a 285/35/19 and/or a 295/35/19 so I can run them on my GT4.