Nilo964

Inspired by the "LA Law" TV series, I bought my 964 C2 new in 1991. It was the second P-car I bought (previously owned a 1986 944T). I've had the opportunity to drive other 911 models, yet never had the urge to sell my 964. For me, it was the best combination of 911 legacy and modern mechanicals. After 23 years and only 58,000 fun filled, carefree miles, it's become part of the family. The smile I have when I drive her today is as broad as the day I bought her. I'm pleased about the well-deserved attention it's getting as it approaches classic status.

NoSub Dan

We'll said.

jimq

I get a lot more compliments on the 964 than I do the Turbo. The ladies dig the convertible

Derek911

I just finished reading a book on the 911 and production numbers may have some play in recent values. Prior to the 964, more coupes were imported than cabs. Finding a 3.2 or SC coupe for sale today is not a hard task. Starting with the 964, more cabs were produced than coupes, quite a bit more. The 964 was the first 911 to appeal to women drivers and people who wanted a drivable 911 and that type of buyer wanted a convertible. So in the used car market today, the coupe is the model desired by enthusiasts and there are simply less of them around than 3.2's or SC are. Supply and demand is driving the cost. Anyone looking for a cab should not have a problem, the coupe buyer has to look hard and move fast. Also a different type of buyer is coming to the table who is not interested in the torsion bar cars but like the look. What not to like about a classic Porsche look with modern mechanics. Enthusiast gravitated to the 993 because mechanically it is the best air cooled Porsche, Generation X gravitates toward the 964 because it is a better looking car and it looks cool slammed. Low availability and a new niche market is making a 964 coupe a very hard car to find on the market.

Mondrian

Not sure I agree with you, the price of convertible, Targa & 4WD have also risen alongside the RWD coupe which has always been the price leader in classic Porsche. In actual fact a mint 964 convertible is only 10 - 20% cheaper than an equivalent C2 964.

The big difference is the total cars produced before and after 964, the G series was made between 1974 to 1989, that's 15 years worth of production with only subtle changes between each of the models in that time span. Also 964 hit the market just as recession set in which impacted sales, by the time 993 came to the market economic outlook started to improve along with sales figures.

HiWind

^^ great points

kos11-12

I owned mine since 06, I am more of a classic motorcycle guy, I was amazed first time I test drive it and both it straight away, it is the only sports car I ever owned , Love the classic and modern combo, plus the fact that you can do a lot to tweak them, the 993 is a too modern design for me, a previous owner rebuild the entire engine so it never leaked oil ...
Plastic ! thank good the bumper are in plastic, it is heavy enough ....
Happy to see the actual price tag but the fun is going on as long as I can afford it .

Mixter

What book did you get your numbers from?

cobalt

I believe he has his info crossed with the 993 which had roughly 900 more cabs than coupes manufactured for the US market although the total 993 production for the US was more than that of the 964. In fact more 993 coupes and cabs were manufactured for the US in 1996 and 1997 alone than all the US spec 964 coupes and cabs combined.

The info I have shows roughly 6100 964 cabs manufactured between 1990 and 1994 and 6006 coupes between 1989 and 1994 for the US. These numbers do not include any specialty cars like the RSA or wide body variants.

Still when you consider desirability of the C2 vs C4, manual vs tip these numbers get very small once you break it out that way. Only a few thousand of each depending what floats your boat that is slim pickings and how many have been parted out and off to the junk yard?

Mixter

Accurate production numbers for the 964 (89-94) seem difficult to source. Using Adrian Streather's book as a data source, which I'm not sure of it's accuracy, the 964 USA(NA) production numbers are:

Coupes
6,306 (C4/C2 Version) + 2,473 (Turbo, Wide Body, RSA)
Total Coupes = 8,779

Cabs
5,860 (C4/C2 Version) + 1,175 (American Roadster, Speedster)
Total Cabs = 7,035

I like to know if anyone has a better source? It would be great if Porsche would just release the numbers, but, for some reason it seems impossible to find this info provided directly from Porsche...

cobalt

Adrian's numbers are off we determined that years ago and he revised his book and the numbers were still off. Adrian has each vin starting at 001 all MY US spec Porsche's start with vin number 061 not 001. Then you have the entire M718 code issue changing vin numbers to the next MY and he has several doubled up especially the turbos. I would include the RSA in with the coupes but would not include the wide body cars they are a different tub.

There were only 350 US spec 94 turbos plus the 17 package turbo S and 39 flacbau turbo S cars. There is controversey over whether there are 229 or 289 1992 turbo 3.3's plus the 20 turbo S2's and 614 1991 US spec 3.3l turbos. That has still not been resolved.

That should make 1269 US spec turbos with 701 RSA's and I still don't have a number for the 1994 C4 widebody cars I believe Norbert said there were 271 but I wouldn't include them or the turbos as part of the standard coupe numbers.

I believe your number for (turbo widebody and RSA) should be closer to 2241 not 2473 and I only come up with 6006 coupes for all US production so closer to 8247 for all coupes. Not sure where you are coming up with 5860 for regular cabs I think the number is higher not including the speedsters and AR.

Mixter

Anthony, Thanks for the info. Interesting to know about the Turbo and RSA #s. The regular cab #s were taken from this spreed sheet http://www.964uk.com/Documents/964%2...%20Numbers.pdf

So with your info and the spread sheet it looks like there was probably around 1000 more US coupes produced than cabs.

cobalt

I have a copy of that as well and the only numbers I can verify as accurate are the America GS. There is only one and i have had the pleasure of seeing it first hand. One gorgeous car. and the 20 1992 Turbo S2's everything else is questionable at best. This chart doesn't even correspond 100% with his book which has conflicting numbers as well.

I cannot verify the ROW numbers, I never made it that far. However there is very little that is correct and I would discard that as a reference. Too many issues with cars being double counted due to the M718 vin change. I discussed this with Adrian after his book came out he did not know about some of the M718 coded cars and many were counted twice. It covers most models including the water cooled of the era. Finding exact numbers is tough. Although you have to give Adrian a lot of credit for being one of the first to attempt to decipher what was manufactured.

Norberts site http://www.turbo-look.de/index-en.php seems to be more accurate but I am still not 100% convinced we have all the answers. There are too many unanswered questions and having several special limited production cars with options that do not carry a specific vin # it is hard to verify unless you track them all down.

Norbert has 267 1994 C4 widebodies being made. He also says that only 250 America Roadsters should have been made but later says the number is actually 326 far more than originally thought.

I can assure you the US spec 94 turbo had 228 cars built using 1993 P coded engines and trannys with the M718 code changing the vin to 1994 MY. The 178 he has listed for 1994 should read 122 he has the turbo S models mixed in. The turbo S column is 0 which should read 56. I would assume the speedsters should read 865 instead of 925. Basically subtract 60 units off each variant that has its own vin number. Adrian did not take the US requirement to test 60 cars for each MY to comply with US DOT requirements. (I doubt they actually destroyed these cars) I was the first to figure this out years ago.

If you use that chart assuming all is off by just the 60 per MY there should be 5560 US spec narrow body C2/C4 cabs but I believe that number is not correct. Again using that chart the coupes should be closer to 5946 but I don't agree with that number as well. This is just for narrow body cars however those numbers would have duplicates for cars with the M718 code.

The RSA registry claims only 701 RSA's made and i would tend to believe that as accurate. If you add all the wideboody cars speedsters , AR's etc I would say that it is very close to a 50/50 split between the two and then there are the targas which aren't even included.

I am just guessing here but in total all US production for the 964 distributed to the US, Canada and a few throughout South America should be close to 15,000 units in total. If you consider that roughly 24,000 US spec 993's were made that makes the 964 one of the lowest production variants of the US spec air cooled 911 made by a considerable margin.

If we bounce back to the desirability of a coupe. I am sure that many no longer exist and if you are looking figure on there being less than 4000 still in existence. Narrow that down to those that want C2's and I would cut that number in half and if you want an RSA or 1991-1994 C2 the numbers get even smaller.

Mixter

Anthony, thanks for taking the time to provide your knowledge and research on this. Very interesting for me and I'm sure many others. As you point out production numbers are lowest for the 964, but then looking at how many might be remaining, I guess we're just fortunate to own one.

cobalt