Black930

cobalt: I got the car with no motor so I figured why not upgrade to the 993. One of the things that helped me make up my mind was the OBD I compared to OBD II plus I just got lucky on this motor so I couldnt let it pass me by. Plus why not put a few extra HP right from the very start. As far as differences Bill Verburg covered it pretty well. Plus as jm993 said I can alwas vario it.

SDemas

I agree with Kaefer on most of it. My brother and I did it 6 yrs ago so I will have to look some things up.
1. We actually put the engine in first. The wiring can be done with it in the car and it allows you to check everything out.
2. We had to use the 993 engine tin since we got the car without the 964 engine tin. The tin is close but not as perfect as it could be. We installed the LWF since this is a semi track car. It doesn't have A/C, power steering, heat, or a blower motor. These should not be a problem though.
3. Yeah doing the oil lines in the car is the only way to do it. I think we used the 964 stock fuel lines and added a piece of rubber to get it off the body on the pass side. I will have to take a picture.
So on the oil lines.
Oil return on the driver side connection. The 964 goes around the back and to the passenger side. The 993 goes under the gearbox. With the stock 993 cat I had to run a SS line under the gearbox to replicate the 993 line.
Oil feed line on the pass side below oil filter. This is where you will need to adapt the line. I used the 993 engine oil adapter that smart racing products sells. This gave me an AN fitting then I had to use an AN to Metric adapter that Elephant racing has. Its lame but I had to go female -16 to female-16 to make it work. You could weld a line. BAT Inc may also have these.
I will follow up with a list of the fittings to create each line and pics.
4. We run the stock 993 headers and cat. We get to pass CA smog .
The 993 headers into the rear cat is a big upgrade to 964 motor. The 964 exhaust flows from the driver side front and all the way around through some small piping. The 993 flows right out the back into the cat with dual outlets.

On the wiring it is just moving a few pins around and there is one wire you have to run from the body harness (under the seat) to the rear electrical box. My brother used his EE degree and did that part and we have it just written out on a notepad. We will draw a better diagram and scan it in. Maybe after the weekend as we will be working on this car.
For ordering parts the oil line parts are all easy to get. If your engine is complete you should not have many parts to order.
The easiest is if I take a few pictures under the car then give you the parts list for that.
Stan

Black930

Stan: That would be great and so helpfull. Pictures speak a thousand words as well. You guys are great thanks again this will be a great help.

kaefer: I can not thank you enough for the input.

Kaefer

This weekend or early next week I'll post up a few more wiring tips and/or pics. This wiring differences between the 964 3.6 and OBD1 993 engine are minimal but like you I'd like to have it figured out before trying to install the engine.

Keep up the good work!

Kaefer

Here's some pics:

These are the (2) connectors that are part of the 964 chassis harness under the drivers seat that you need to be concerned with. Verify what each pin does and compare to the pins in the 993 DME harness that plugs into these connectors. The connectors not circled are for the stock power seat/seatbelt connections.


This is what the 993 setup will look like under the seat although I'd mount the DME 180 degrees from what's shown. Note the ignitor in the pic (moved from the engine bay in the 964). The 993's use a single ignitor under the seat vs. the 964 dual ignitors in the engine compartment.


In this pic you'll need to verify what each pin in the 964 chassis side 14-pin connector is used for and compare to the 993 engine side 14-pin connector. If any pins need to be moved or removed I generally do the modifications on the chassis side connector. There are (2) connectors on the 993 engine that connect here. One connects to the 964 chassis 14-pin connector. The other plugs into the 993 DME harness that will be connected here.


Backside of 964 engine relay panel. Attach the 993 DME harness to the panel as shown in the pic.


I hope these pics help!

LastMezger

You guys are great. I can't even imagine taking on something like this.

Black930

kaefer: these will help greatly. You truely are top notch. This is exactly what I need. I cant wait till paint is done and get going on this. I will deff keep pics coming. p.s. you have a pm sent to you.

NinetyOnec2: These guys are great and very helpfull I have learned so much in such a short time from them. I can not thank them enough.

JBaker1121

nice thread...useful if I end up with a 964 shell as opposed to a full car... the 3.6L is so sweet.

you live in the bronx? Where did you find your 964? I've been trying to find one but have come across literally 6 even wroth looking at.... and all are out-of-state. PM me with info if you have any

SDemas

Pictures are worth a thousand words so here we go. Excuse the dirt under the motor. There are a lot of conversions here which could be made a lot simpler. You could do it much simpler with a 30mm to 30mm line fittings that BAT Inc. sells instead of converting to AN then back like I did. If I did it again or change this car I would do what I did below with their hose ends for the oil return line. We did this a long time ago and were in a big hurry at the time.

Oil Return line:
img 1021
This is the 90degree -16AN fitting for the line that goes from the bottom of the engine to the oil filter housing. Normally this is the 30mm to 30mm line that goes around the back of the motor. I think there is a male to male converter on the engine that I went from a male 30mm to male -16 AN. I think I had it with a different adapter but it was too long and hit the exhaust headers. With the 993 catalytic converter you have to go forward under the gearbox and around. I purchased 6 feet of -16 AN line and probably only used about 4.5 of it but you will have power steering so you may need closer to 5 feet. I got the 90, line and 45 degree all from Summit.
IMG_1024.JPG
So it runs underneath the transmission and around to the oil filter housing. With bigger mufflers and power steering it will be a little trickier.
IMG_1030.JPG
So going into the oil filter housing the line terminates with a -16 45 degree swivel fitting. Then It converts using a -16 AN male to female 30mm converter.

On the oil supply line:
Img 1029
I used the Smart Racing Products 993 oil inlet adapter pieces which terminates with a -16 AN Male. I can give you the part numbers if you need them but basically it is all the seals, and parts to adapt out using their 993 to -16 fittings. I don’t know who else makes one. The 993 just has a rubber hose that connects to a metal pipe on the engine. The 964 has the 30mm fitting.
Then I used a female -16AN to -16AN female to adapt out. Then a Male -16AN to 30mm male adapter. It’s a lot of adapting and I needed to space it out. I would rather weld a metal line that converted the two. There are a lot of options here. This worked for me as I need to be able to swap engine types in this car easily.
Let me know if you have any questions?
My brother hdemas will post the wiring tomorrow. He took a few pics and checked how he swapped the pins.

Stan

SDemas

Okay so the fuel lines were the easiest part. Except I can't remember if I swapped to a 993 line on the inlet side or it just fit. So on the feed line the first picture img1013 is my stock 964 which the fuel line goes fairly far forward.
img1016 is the conversion car which looks like its a 993 line going from fuel filter to the rail. Img1017 is the 993 which looks more like the one in the conversion car. I put some extra hose since it rests against the oil fill housing.
img1015 is the return line which I believe is the stock 964 line. The 993 fuel line has a 90 degree in img1018. Not necessary.
On the inlet I would try the stock 964 line and if it is too long then switch to the 993 just on that side.

Stan

Black930

This is great you guys have been such a great help. I look forward to the wiring. Thanks again.

hdemas

I am SDemas' brother and the one that did the electronics for the conversion of our car to a 1995 993 motor. It is actually pretty easy. The below should get you a car that is running. Our car doesn't have the heater blower motor, the power steering pump, A/C or cruise control so I didn't have to deal with the electronics on those items, so you may need to figure out a few more things from the wiring schematics.

First, I will address what has to be done in the left rear corner in the engine bay. Kaefer pointed out the 14 pin connector that is the issue (his third picture). The 993 engine wiring harness has an identical 14 pin connector that plugs in here. I'm pretty sure I just plugged the 14 pin 993 connector here into the 964 body wiring harness plug, except for one modification that you need to make on the 993 harness...

- open up the shrouding on the 993 engine harness by the plug and open up the plug.
- there is a small green/black wire (I believe it goes to pin 1 looking at the wiring schematic now, but anyway, just go by color).
- take the green/black wire out of the plug and put the plug back together and plug it into the 964 body harness. Remove the tip on the green/black wire (you can solder it off or just cut it off) and then put a connector to a new wire (big red wire in my pictures) ("Big Red Wire") that you will need to run up to the area under the driver's seat.
- the first picture attached shows the 14 pin connector plugged in, the green/black wire off the engine harness and the connector going to the Big Red Wire that runs up along the wiring harness to the area under the driver's seat (yeah, the big red wire is big and ugly, but it was all I had that was convenient when I was working on this).

Second, I will go through what has to be done under the driver's seat. Ignore the fact that in my pictures the stuff is behind the driver's seat (it is a race car and I didn't have the fancy brackets to hold things under the seat in their stock locations). Here you will need to do the following:

- the ignition control unit (7 pin connector that is in line, and the thing attaches to a heat sink) is part of the 993 electronics and just needs to be mounted. This is the flat thing on the left attached to the aluminum plate in my second picture, and also appears at the lower right of Kaefer's second picture.
- on the 964 body side, there is a 14 pin connector ("964 Matching Connector") and a 6 pin connector ("964 6-pin Connector"). These appear in Kaefer's first picture. The 964 6-pin Connector is also visible at the top of my third picture.
- on the 993 engine wiring harness, there are two connectors, a 14 pin connector that is compatible with the 964 body 14 pin connector ("993 Matching Connector"), and another 14 pin connector that is larger (the "993-specific Connector"). These appear at the bottom of Kaefer's second picture (993-specific Connector on the left and 993 Matching Connector on the right, next to the ignition control unit. The 993-specific Connector appears at the bottom of my third picture.
- the 993 Matching Connector is a straight plug-in to the 964 Matching Connector. You can see they are just connected in the upper left of my second picture.
- you will need to take certain wires out of the 993-specific Connector as well as the Big Red Wire that you ran from the rear of the car and plug them into the 964 6-pin Connector. I built up the male part of the 6-pin connector on my 993 engine wiring harness (being held by my hand on the third picture) to make it a nice plug-in to the 964 6-pin Connector. Anyway, here is how the wiring goes:

964 6-pin Connector Pin 2 - On the 964 body wiring harness, this is a large black wire. You will need to take the large black wire out of the 993-specific Connector Pin 2 and connect it to Pin 2 on the 964 6-pin Connector.

964 6-pin Connector Pin 3 - On the 964 body wiring harness this is a large red/white wire. You will need to take both the large red/white wire out of the 993-specific Connector Pin 3 and the small black/red wire out of the 993-specific Connector Pin 10 and connect them to Pin 3 on the 964 6-pin Connector.

964 6-pin Connector Pin 6 - On the 964 body wiring harness, this is a green/black wire. You will need to take the Big Red Wire that you ran from the engine compartment and connect it to Pin 6 on the 964 6-pin Connector. (you should see the theme here as the Big Red Wire came off of green/black wire on the engine wiring harness...the colors of the wires tend to match the function)

That is all there is to it. Let us know if you have any questions. Good luck with the conversion...you will really like the upgrade.

Black930

This is great guys what did you guys go with as far as exhaust? Im looking to keep heat.

hdemas

We could easily add heat to our car by adding tubes from the heat exchanger to the body and adding back the heater/blower in the engine bay. However, we live in California and the car is a fair weather toy so we preferred leaving it off.

The best set-up for the exhaust is to run 993 heat exchangers/exhaust manifolds into the stock 1995 993 cat (with the single plug for the oxygen sensor). The 964 exhaust sucks (is very restrictive) and the upgrade to the very efficient 993 exhaust manifolds and high-flow catalytic is a significant part of why the 1995 993 motor makes more power than the 964 motor. This set-up is very clean and the 993 cat easily fits in the 964 (though requires rerouting of the oil lines in the way Stan described to you). It also preserves all the stock emissions equipment...we have to pass California smog every two years, which has never been an issue with this set-up as it is, for emissions purposes, just a stock 1995 993. The only tricky part is what to do after the cat. We are just running Fabspeed supercups for a 993, though these are a bit loud unless you get the baffled versions (still loud, but not as much) and also don't quite exit in the location you will want...too low, too far to the inside and not extending far enough out towards the rear of the car. One option is to use these and have a muffler shop modify them. This will work well, though will be a bit on the louder side as you are really relying on the cat to do all the muffling. You can try to mount 993 mufflers, but it is a really tight fit and will require some modifications to clear 964 bumper supports and to make the pipes exit in the correct location. I think the best bet is to take it to a good muffler shop and have them do something custom with a small generic muffler in each of the side areas and then exiting out the back (or doing this with 993 mufflers but modifying them to shrink them down to a size that works. With any of the set-ups using the 993 manifolds and catalytic you will need to cut another opening in the left rear bumper to have dual exhaust outlets.

For heat, run all the stock 993 heater/blower stuff...motor, ducting down through the engine tin, cross-pipe under the engine tin (and right above the catalytic converter), and rubber tubes from the cross-pipe down into the heat exchangers. I know all of that stuff will fit fine except perhaps the cross-pipe under the engine tin...I think it will fit, but haven't actually tried installing it so I can't be certain on that one. You will then need to find some custom tubing to run fron the heat exchangers up to the 964 body tubes (with the 964 backflow prevention/diverter flaps in place). This shouldn't be too difficult to find...there are Home Depot solutions, though ideally you can find some better quality tubing of the right diameter.

Harry

Kaefer

Use the 993 heat exchangers that came on the engine along with a RS heat tube off the fan shroud to pump air into the exchangers. Sunset Porsche is a good place to get this part.

Then decide if you need to run the 993 cat or not and go from there...

(I'll get to your PM about the tins later tonight or tomorrow morning)