Branded Title
01-10-2017, 06:01 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
When I had a collision in the Stepson, I parked the car in my driveway and refused to let the insurance company come and get it for appraisal. I demanded and received an on-site appraiser. From there, it was just straight negotiation. I did no work to the car prior to settling. That does not mean that I did not begin collecting parts. When the check showed up on my door via Fed-Ex, I began removing and replacing parts.
01-10-2017, 06:03 PM
#47
I agree with ^. Starting repairs is another issue. I have no idea what happened here but highly recommend against usurping the carriers authority. I am 100% an advocate of selecting who will do the work and holding fast. That is not an issue to most carriers. I recommend not doing anything to usurp authority no matter whether it is time or money. The carrier is on your side until you make it not so.
I am sure you are right.
Warning....
I think this thread highlights some key issues that are the reason that most reasonable, honest, hard working people can't stand insurance companies. In cases like this you get treated as guilty until proven innocent. You are a customer for multiple decades without one claim but you get zero equity for that loyalty. You get put into a spreadsheet and have algorithms run on your situation. The goal is for them to pay you as little as possible regardless of circumstance. And then what is most annoying is when you do the math and realize that if you would have put that monthly insurance fee away in savings for all those years that you could have paid for the damage 4 times over.
I am sure you are right.
Warning....
I think this thread highlights some key issues that are the reason that most reasonable, honest, hard working people can't stand insurance companies. In cases like this you get treated as guilty until proven innocent. You are a customer for multiple decades without one claim but you get zero equity for that loyalty. You get put into a spreadsheet and have algorithms run on your situation. The goal is for them to pay you as little as possible regardless of circumstance. And then what is most annoying is when you do the math and realize that if you would have put that monthly insurance fee away in savings for all those years that you could have paid for the damage 4 times over.
01-10-2017, 07:30 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
How is starting repairs "usurping carrier's authority?" That wouldn't change what they were going to pay out.
I'm not buying the "They're not in it for the money" argument. AT ALL. Of course they're in it for the money. To that end, they'd also like to not get sued, but I see no reason they couldn't investigate the repairs and the shop a little before coming to the conclusion that something shady is afoot (if in fact that's what they've decided) unless their principal motivation was to get out of paying.
I'm not buying the "They're not in it for the money" argument. AT ALL. Of course they're in it for the money. To that end, they'd also like to not get sued, but I see no reason they couldn't investigate the repairs and the shop a little before coming to the conclusion that something shady is afoot (if in fact that's what they've decided) unless their principal motivation was to get out of paying.
01-10-2017, 09:15 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
All the comments are terrific and thank you very much.
Sequence of events is that the first adjuster that looked at the car never offered what the repair cost would be. USAA offered $12k for the car and they would come haul it way! Period! So this lump was in my driveway and after a few dozen gin and tonics and a few expresso's I decided to take a close look at the damage. Took lots of pictures sent them to GB and got and independent appraiser to evaluate the car.
USAA wanted to close the case and pressured me to give up the car. I dug in. Then they reversed their tone an told me to take it to a specialist (GB). Then they sent another adjuster to take a look at it and talk to GB. It's really difficult to get an exact cost unless you dive into it and take it apart. USAA agreed. They knew that we were collecting parts because so many parts are NLA. I informed them we were going to get into the repair. The adjuster was very understanding and reasonable. The offer went to $18k from 12K but still with a branded title. I said no and I would go it alone with the repair without accepting a dime from USAA. The case was turned over to a supervisor that now wants to come up with a number and I can still keep the title. I can't imagine many offer the insurance company this type of an offer.
It sure eliminates any thought of fraud. It's simple. I don't want their money if they are going to screw with the title.
Stay tuned>
Sequence of events is that the first adjuster that looked at the car never offered what the repair cost would be. USAA offered $12k for the car and they would come haul it way! Period! So this lump was in my driveway and after a few dozen gin and tonics and a few expresso's I decided to take a close look at the damage. Took lots of pictures sent them to GB and got and independent appraiser to evaluate the car.
USAA wanted to close the case and pressured me to give up the car. I dug in. Then they reversed their tone an told me to take it to a specialist (GB). Then they sent another adjuster to take a look at it and talk to GB. It's really difficult to get an exact cost unless you dive into it and take it apart. USAA agreed. They knew that we were collecting parts because so many parts are NLA. I informed them we were going to get into the repair. The adjuster was very understanding and reasonable. The offer went to $18k from 12K but still with a branded title. I said no and I would go it alone with the repair without accepting a dime from USAA. The case was turned over to a supervisor that now wants to come up with a number and I can still keep the title. I can't imagine many offer the insurance company this type of an offer.
It sure eliminates any thought of fraud. It's simple. I don't want their money if they are going to screw with the title.
Stay tuned>
01-10-2017, 09:39 PM
#51
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Back to administering of a branded title. The entire reason for a branded or salvage title WAS to protect the consumer from a hatchet job on a car being put back on the road without the buyer being any wiser. The states abrogated this duty to the insurers. Fact is, you could actually buy two crashed cars, one crashed front, one crashed rear, saw each in half, weld the halves back together and as long as no INSURER was involved, you could indeed sell the car as a clean title. What has happened over time, is that the insurers have banded together and changed the theme of protecting the consumer, to protecting their financial interest in an insured car. Grrrrrrrrrrr.
This is anathema to an owner like Van who wants to be compensated for DAMAGE to his car so then it can be REPAIRED to equal or better condition than when it was built and insured by the carrier. Hoping the supe will understand this, and work with Van to be human about things, and appreciate that there are car collectors out there. So - pony up insurer, and then leave the car title alone! Just like the legislators intended with the regs on salvage cars.
This is anathema to an owner like Van who wants to be compensated for DAMAGE to his car so then it can be REPAIRED to equal or better condition than when it was built and insured by the carrier. Hoping the supe will understand this, and work with Van to be human about things, and appreciate that there are car collectors out there. So - pony up insurer, and then leave the car title alone! Just like the legislators intended with the regs on salvage cars.
01-10-2017, 10:35 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thank you.
We are car guys and collectors. I have no intentions of selling this car. My kids, I'm sure will sell it at sometime and they can disclose it if required. I would never compromise a build and if GB or the body shop questioned the integrity of the car...I would back away in a heart beat.
We are car guys and collectors. I have no intentions of selling this car. My kids, I'm sure will sell it at sometime and they can disclose it if required. I would never compromise a build and if GB or the body shop questioned the integrity of the car...I would back away in a heart beat.
01-11-2017, 02:04 AM
#53
Three Wheelin'
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The unscathed title can be accomplished. It takes being on board with the carrier not adversarial. I know of some classic examples. Rarely, however, will fire, frame damage, or flood escape the noose.
Next concern on the Vanster car is what will Carfax report say and who controls it?
Next concern on the Vanster car is what will Carfax report say and who controls it?
01-11-2017, 06:56 AM
#54
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The unscathed title can be accomplished. It takes being on board with the carrier not adversarial. I know of some classic examples. Rarely, however, will fire, frame damage, or flood escape the noose.
Next concern on the Vanster car is what will Carfax report say and who controls it?
Next concern on the Vanster car is what will Carfax report say and who controls it?
01-11-2017, 11:15 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
Knowing the applicable law might be a good thing:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES
19.005 Definitions
A vehicle that has been wrecked, destroyed, or damaged, to the extent that the owner or insurance company considers it uneconomical to repair and therefore, the vehicle is not repaired for the owner. An unrecovered stolen vehicle is not a Total Loss Salvage Vehicle.
A vehicle that has been wrecked, destroyed, or damaged, to the extent that the owner or insurance company considers it uneconomical to repair and therefore, the vehicle is not repaired for the owner. An unrecovered stolen vehicle is not a Total Loss Salvage Vehicle.
19.010 Application for Salvage Certificate (CVC §11515)
The insurance company or its designee (salvage pool or registration service) or the owner must apply for the Salvage Certificate within 10 days from the date the insurance company makes a total loss settlement with the owner.
• The Salvage Certificate must be issued in the name of the insurance company or the owner shown on the department’s records at the time the vehicle was wrecked,not to a subsequent buyer.
• Transfer of the vehicle to the subsequent buyer may be accomplished by the owner or insurance company using the assignment space on the Salvage Certificate.
• Issuance of a Salvage Certificate does not change the expiration date of the vehicle.
• Although registration fees are not due at the time the Salvage Certificate is issued, all fees must be paid on the vehicle or a Planned Non-Operation must be filed in a timely manner to avoid penalties whether or not the vehicle will be revived.
• A Salvage Certificate cannot be issued for an unrecovered stolen vehicle.
The insurance company or its designee (salvage pool or registration service) or the owner must apply for the Salvage Certificate within 10 days from the date the insurance company makes a total loss settlement with the owner.
• The Salvage Certificate must be issued in the name of the insurance company or the owner shown on the department’s records at the time the vehicle was wrecked,not to a subsequent buyer.
• Transfer of the vehicle to the subsequent buyer may be accomplished by the owner or insurance company using the assignment space on the Salvage Certificate.
• Issuance of a Salvage Certificate does not change the expiration date of the vehicle.
• Although registration fees are not due at the time the Salvage Certificate is issued, all fees must be paid on the vehicle or a Planned Non-Operation must be filed in a timely manner to avoid penalties whether or not the vehicle will be revived.
• A Salvage Certificate cannot be issued for an unrecovered stolen vehicle.
01-11-2017, 01:45 PM
#57
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Don't laugh at me, but the science of actuarial math/probability is quite fascinating. Also includes finance, economics, heuristics, and game theory. A good actuarial can make or break profit on an insurer. Some of the statistical methods used in actuary are very, very dark secrets. But - like gambling and game theory - the house almost always comes out ahead(in the long run). 
01-11-2017, 01:59 PM
#58
Don't laugh at me, but the science of actuarial math/probability is quite fascinating. Also includes finance, economics, heuristics, and game theory. A good actuarial can make or break profit on an insurer. Some of the statistical methods used in actuary are very, very dark secrets. But - like gambling and game theory - the house almost always comes out ahead(in the long run).
01-11-2017, 02:07 PM
#59
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
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I know! Right? Sounds like dry, boring, convoluted number crunching. But - statistical analytics and probability has remarkable uses, and actuary is one of the most important. Financial houses spend multi-millions on algorithms that will help them predict market trends. insurers spend millions on it too. Van is soooooo far outside the curve of probability that he needs to go to 'special handling' because he's left the sixth sigma of probability outcomes.
01-11-2017, 02:57 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm not overly concerned with Car Fax as if I do sell it after 10 years or so and it's been reliable with no issues, who cares. I would disclose it to the buyer regardless. I've been in shops, here and in the UK where they have taken just the fire wall a number plate and built the entire car up from nothing and sold them for big bucks. If the work is done correctly and documented then it's Ok in my book.
10 years from now I'll be 81....do the math
10 years from now I'll be 81....do the math