vanster

I am having a heck of a time with my insurance company ( USAA ) trying to get them to pay out for the Red Car fire. They did offer a settlement far greater than initially, back in August. They finally realize the difference in value between an 86 and an 86.5 with a 5sp. However their new and somewhat reasonable offer comes only with a salvage title. I told them that this is unacceptable and now I fishing for a lesser amount along with clear title.
It seems by waiting them out their offer keeps getting better. In a a few months the car will be totally repaired and USAA will still be telling me that it's a total loss. They are a bit pissed that I won't settle and I won't go away.

In my opinion the value of any car decreases by about half if the car is stuck with a salvage title and a pain to get it reinsured, registered etc.
Anyone here been thru this?

Van

FLT951

Just curious, what are the car details and the details re damage?
Also, where are you in my Otown?

James Bailey

State Farm "settled" with owners of cars which they sold which should have been branded as salvage titles....the settlement was $40,000,000. So yes salvage title does reduce the value. And every insurance company knows about this settlement !! It was also stated that the actual losses to the eventual owners was far greater than the $40 million. Nov 20 2005 article The Insurance Journal

GT6ixer

Insurance companies are a racket. Eff them for being pissed and good for you for not backing down.

docmirror

Sigh,,,, This topic has become a minefield for both owners, insurers and even states. the job of the salvage title is to protect the consumer from unscrupulous car dealers who would otherwise sell a damaged/repaired car as just 'used'. The theory is good, the administration is bad. There are a lot of arcane rules that affect how the title is branded, and they change from state to state, and even from county to county(even though the state issues the title).

Sometimes, you can 'wash' a title through several states to clear the salvage branding, although that is supposed to be impossible now.

On to cases. CA is one of those places where the salvage can never be cleared. However, it can be changed from salvaged to rebuilt, but the effect on the valuation is basically no different, because it's assumed that every car which is titled as salvage and subsequently registered for highway use is in fact - rebuilt. Which means it passes the safety and smog inspections. There are some cases where a salvage vehicle will remain salvaged and declared 'not for road use', but that's rare.

I've successfully brought 2 cars back to rebuilt status, and it's not that hard, but the deal is - everyone knows it was salvage at some point. Since you are negotiating with the insurer to basically 'sell' them the car for compensation, and the insurer has the power to declare an asset(car) salvage for their valuation and financial reasons, not a lot you can do about it, but convince the insurer that the car is no longer financially and safety in a state of salvage. Which it sounds like you are at now.

They clearly know your car is a collector item due to age, make, model. Some insurers care more than others, and a lot will depend on your adjuster. If your adjuster doesn't want to play ball, and do the inspections needed to avoid salvage, then ask for another adjuster. If they will avoid the salvage title, and that costs you less in recovery - well, frankly that seems fair to me. Can't really have it both ways. So, everything is negotiable. The insurer wants to make out financially and not have this come back and bite them later, and you want to see that your title remains clear and not salvage.

Pretty sure you can get there, provided you prove to the adjuster that you are bringing the car back to an 'as designed and built' state with normal wear considered. That's what my adjuster looked for when I negotiated with him. He was pretty casual about it, but wanted to see that the car was not going to come apart later on. I would document your work carefully, and ask for inspections where needed(sounds like you know this already).

I think avoiding a salvage title, and avoiding going to a rebuilt title is worth it, but in some cases and some cars, maybe not.

vanster

The car is at Greg Browns now and the motor is out and about to go to the paint shop. The damage is not all that bad but to put it back together correctly and having GB do the work is an investment in the future.The adjuster has been to Greg's shop and looked at the car and agrees that it's a collector's car and the value will continue to increase.
What happens if I just bite the bullet and tell USAA to forget it? I don't want their money, I'll go it alone. Then when we are are finished I'll go to Haggerty or someone similar and get a declared value with a clean title.

bureau13

Show them Greg's post that essentially said "That's barely even a fire." Well, I guess if they've been to his shop they know all that...

Imo000

You jumped the gun on all accounts, the insurance company knows this and cornered you with it. The adjuster reported back that the car is already getting repaired so unfortunately you have little choice at this point. Especially if they know you already bought a donor car too. If they take your counter offer of lesser amount but not branding than take it but they might even go as far as branding it regardless if even a penny is payed out. Maybe time to layer up?

Chalkboss

I don't have anything to add except be VERY wary of USAA. We had a home and car policies with them for 4 years. Some jackhole hit my wife's car while it was parked out front of our house and drove off. We reported it, and had the car repaired ($1200). Thought that was the end of it. Nope. For some unknown reason they felt like my wife had hit a car, so they had paint analysis done on the damage. To make a very long story short they dropped us and said we lied to them. I am filing a complaint with the State Ins Commissioner. This came out of left field, everyone I have talked to can't believe they took this stance, and all over 1200 bucks. They can drop dead.

I hope whatever you decide works out for you. But as you know beware!

88bender

You are absolutely right especially when its a sports car .

Guy

Some states require a salvage title be issued if a certain percentage of value is paid off. It's a simple math equation. I believe in my state of PA, it is 75 percent. You likely did such a good job getting the figure up that you crossed that threshold.

I am in the salvage business, seen gorgeous fullyou operational cars with salvage titles due to payoffs for various oddities.

vanster

How can an insurance company demand a salvage title. It's my car and I have the title, what are the going to do, come to my home and demand the title?
I made them a very reasonable offer to pay something and let me keep the title but it appears that I am going to be doing this all on my own. What is the reason we pay for insurance Lucy?

docmirror

I don't really like the sound of this. further, I don't think a civil jurist or magistrate will like the sound of it, should you choose to press the matter. You have acted responsibly, and bought insurance commensurate to the value of the car, you've paid the premiums they demanded, and decided to repair the car to top notch specs for your personal use. As has been mentioned, insurers have been punished before for messing with the reduction in value.

It troubles me when people fold when confronted by a big bad company. It happened to me once with a large title insurer who jerked me around on a property for a few months. It was going to be a pretty big claim, and I took my time, and kept lots of notes. About 3 hours before our court appearance they caved and offered me the original claim sought. I told them to pony up $2600 for my atty fee and we were done. They balked at that, until the first witness came up, then folded and paid off.

Part of the cycle is that a large insurer will just pick at claimants because they KNOW that a significant percent will do exactly what you are talking about and cave. It really pisses me off.

Guy

Depends on the state and the insurnance company. Some states have you surrender the title to the insurance company prior to payment. Other states simply issue a salvage certificate which negates any clear title that you may have in your possession.

I am empathetic to your situation but the insurance company is likely following state law. They simply follow the guidelines on percentage of value.

My unsolicited advice is to talk to your insurance rep. Find the magic number which makes you happy without the salvage title. It's a win win for all concerned.

FLT951

1. Always buy insurance from someone who represents you not the carrier.
2. Always investigate the carrier just like you would a used car.
3. if you enjoy cheap premiums enjoy cheap service as well and don't complain.
4. Never ever lay down in a fight with an insurance carrier. Pretend they are in your garage with a slim jim
at midnight or they are a buyer trying to talk you down $10k.
5. Don't start a fight prematurely. The carrier can't force you to do anything but the adjuster can make you
a CASE.
6. Recognize that an insurance carrier will not give you money you are not entitled to and they will not
spend x amount of dollars for a claim that is worth only x amount of dollars.
7. Sometimes they even make stupid decisions that work in your favor.

2 cases in point.
A.) On one of N. California's third world pock marked, debris throwing, obstacle course, death trap highways I swerved my 15 year old Audi wagon to miss a giant pothole in the slow lane of a major freeway. Oooops my mistake, I should have hit that one instead of the larger one that blew my tire and bent 2 of my stock alloy wheels.
How could I have known that the folly of driving in Ca would be a reward? 15 year old stock alloy wheels are way expensive. Carrier determines wheels are $2500 and car is worth $5000. Total the car for $5000 and sell me the salvage for $900. I buy 4 killer aftermarket wheels an inch bigger and radically improve the look and performance of the car and could care less about sinister title. Sell the two undamaged wheels for $500. Drive the car 3 more years and sell it for $4000 largely because it has cool wheels. Buyer could care less about title. He has a car that was never damaged and so what about the title? Do the math. Thanx Ins. Co.
B. Vandals slash the convertible top and mess up the frame while searching for goodies. Ins co says factory top plus frame plus install is nearly $10000. I know they are wrong but I am not their mommy. They value the car at 19000 and refuse to pay to repair it. They pay $19950 after I negotiate them up. They sell me the salvage for $3500 after I negotiate them down. I pay less than $5000 to put on a brand new top with a brand new frame. Again do the math. I buy a second car very similar car with the proceeds. After the fact, I find out my agent prevented them from filing a marked title on the logic that the car was not damaged. Even if it had a marked title I could have cared less. Any potential buyer who shied away from a perfect car just because of a title freakiness is just a fool.
C. BONUS
My friends 79 SC has its Fuchs wheels stolen. See A and duplicate the deal. My friend is pleased because he has always wanted BBS. He gets his BBS and makes a few thousand $. He sells car to a smart buyer for market value because buyer recognizes that the wheels don't justify the title hit and if the next buyer doesn't get it, so what.