Is the Roger Box the only Future?
02-14-2016, 09:33 AM
#46
Rennlist Member
It's even worse than most people know: the code that controls 991/981's is actually encrypted. Last I knew, tuners have not been able to crack it. You can't even do anything to increase air flow, since the code will command the throttle to close in response.
Our only hope is that PLA 61398 (the Chinese Army hacking unit) will go after Porsche.
Our only hope is that PLA 61398 (the Chinese Army hacking unit) will go after Porsche.
The thing we should not lose sight of is that the 928 tune is relatively crude by todays standards and the ability to decode and modify such has only been around for a relatively few years.
Today's motors by definition must be be much more finitely well tuned to get the combination of economy and power that they do. This suggests to me that having someone hack around with the tune of today's motors with direct injection etc etc would be a recipe for disaster [I suspect] thus if the software is encrypted the interesting point of discussion may be whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.
My wife recently commented how today's cars are starting to look like each other- I wryly commented that there can only be one perfect design and as we get ever closer to it by definition all vehicles of a specific class will inevitably start to look the same. That logic also must apply to engine tuning I suspect.
I reckon it is only a question of a small amount of time before our cars will have command over-rides in them to defacto stop speeding and/or determine how much in fines you owe the authorities. Indeed they may even devise such to drive you directly to the nearest lock up [heaven forbid!].
Rgds
Fred
02-14-2016, 10:26 AM
#47
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I kind of smile somewhat when I read comments about driver involvement- all very true but what is the point of the exercise?
Manufacturers are trying to produce "more for less" and generally they are succeeding in this regard. When my GTS was originally delivered in 1992 it cost around $100k over here. Today for that kind of money you can purchase a brand new Porsche of some kind [Cayman GTS?] that will **** rings round the 928 in most regards- that is "progress". Is it as much fun to drive?- that depends entirely on your point of view. Personally if the car can "do more" I find that engaging others may not.
The simple fact is that technology has reached a point where computerised logic circuits can do better than humans can in most instances but no matter what some folks may think, I can guarantee that if you put Lewis Hamilton in said vehicle and A. N. Other in one Lewis will still **** rings round the Other on any circuit in any conditions- that you can guarantee.
I have driven a recent 911 Turbo S with PDK- I can only describe it as "stunning" my only regret being that I do not have the funds and/or inclination to purchase one. Is it a good thing or a bad thing because it is not inclined to spit you into the hedge backwards as soon as you hit the gas pedal or the brake pedal? That is "progress".
Manual gearboxes are a thing of the past, they will still give their own form of pleasure and long may they do so but the notion that they are better- I don't think so not any longer.
Rgds
Fred
Manufacturers are trying to produce "more for less" and generally they are succeeding in this regard. When my GTS was originally delivered in 1992 it cost around $100k over here. Today for that kind of money you can purchase a brand new Porsche of some kind [Cayman GTS?] that will **** rings round the 928 in most regards- that is "progress". Is it as much fun to drive?- that depends entirely on your point of view. Personally if the car can "do more" I find that engaging others may not.
The simple fact is that technology has reached a point where computerised logic circuits can do better than humans can in most instances but no matter what some folks may think, I can guarantee that if you put Lewis Hamilton in said vehicle and A. N. Other in one Lewis will still **** rings round the Other on any circuit in any conditions- that you can guarantee.
I have driven a recent 911 Turbo S with PDK- I can only describe it as "stunning" my only regret being that I do not have the funds and/or inclination to purchase one. Is it a good thing or a bad thing because it is not inclined to spit you into the hedge backwards as soon as you hit the gas pedal or the brake pedal? That is "progress".
Manual gearboxes are a thing of the past, they will still give their own form of pleasure and long may they do so but the notion that they are better- I don't think so not any longer.
Rgds
Fred
I didn't have the chance yet to try a newer Porsche with the PDK.
But I'm sure I would be amazed at how it performs.
If I would get the chance to buy a new Porsche, it would definately be a PDK equipped one... With many other options too!
Would it be different than a 5 speed, of course. And by fare.
But to me, it's called progress.
Manual gearboxes will definately be a thing of the past in a not very fare future.
And we're not even talking about electric vehicles.
http://www.porsche.com/international/mission-future/
By then, we still have the chance to play with our beloved 928s!
My 2 cents.
Last edited by Bertrand Daoust; 02-14-2016 at 06:00 PM.
02-14-2016, 10:56 AM
#48
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Fred,
From an engineering point of view, I actually take a dim view of tuning. I am sympathetic to the Porsche engineer who has worked hard to achieve a particular balance among many considerations, some of which only he has the data to consider properly. Some of these considerations relate to long-term durability, of course. Certainly, he is justified in preventing "tampering" during the warranty period, or later if it risked his reputation.
But situations might arise where an owner is fully justified in making a change (to fix a defect, for example, that a manufacturer doesn't acknowledge, or for products they arbitrarily declare they no longer support).
From an engineering point of view, I actually take a dim view of tuning. I am sympathetic to the Porsche engineer who has worked hard to achieve a particular balance among many considerations, some of which only he has the data to consider properly. Some of these considerations relate to long-term durability, of course. Certainly, he is justified in preventing "tampering" during the warranty period, or later if it risked his reputation.
But situations might arise where an owner is fully justified in making a change (to fix a defect, for example, that a manufacturer doesn't acknowledge, or for products they arbitrarily declare they no longer support).
02-14-2016, 12:15 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Conversion kits available by Piranha Bros., etc. Heavy duty components, an extra gear, readily available parts, and not to expensive. What's not to love. T
Last edited by 77tony; 02-14-2016 at 12:55 PM.
02-14-2016, 10:59 PM
#50
Nordschleife Master
Dual-clutch (or even single computer controlled clutches a la BMW/Ferrari/etc) shift faster, consistently at the correct ranges to remain in the power band etc. so in technical pure-performance terms they're "better".
However, for me part of the fun in a manual is the mechanical sympathy aspect - manually clutching, rev-matching and rowing the gearbox is all part of the overall enjoyment experience. In that respect, "better" is something which a computer controlled clutch can't compete with.
I guess in the future I'll be regarded a bit like the guys who drive steam tractors
02-15-2016, 02:05 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
I choose my words "carefully". Mechanical performance is a somewhat sterile quantity- you can measure the speed of gear changes and you can measure mechanical life expectancy but you cannot measure the quantity "idiot operating it"- the latter defining how optimally you can get what performance is potentially available.
"Pleasure derived" is a different concept. The PDK gearbox knocks something silly like 0.4 of a second off the 0 to 60 time because of the speed it operates at- that is clearly "better" but that does not make it more "enjoyable" for everyone - however it would for me if I was expecting "performance".
Reminds me of the story about little Johnny when he was at school. The teacher asked the class "what does the word indifferent mean". Little Johnny not being too bright was utterly delighted when he could at last answer a question directed at the class so jumped up, threw his hand into the air and shouted " Please Miss, it means Nice". The teacher was a bit confused about this so asked him to explain his logic. Little Johnny replied -well Miss, I was walking past my Mum and Dad's bedroom the other day and heard my mum say "that was nice" to which my Dad replied "yes - it is in different".
Subjectivity- a wonderful thing.
Rgds
Fred
"Pleasure derived" is a different concept. The PDK gearbox knocks something silly like 0.4 of a second off the 0 to 60 time because of the speed it operates at- that is clearly "better" but that does not make it more "enjoyable" for everyone - however it would for me if I was expecting "performance".
Reminds me of the story about little Johnny when he was at school. The teacher asked the class "what does the word indifferent mean". Little Johnny not being too bright was utterly delighted when he could at last answer a question directed at the class so jumped up, threw his hand into the air and shouted " Please Miss, it means Nice". The teacher was a bit confused about this so asked him to explain his logic. Little Johnny replied -well Miss, I was walking past my Mum and Dad's bedroom the other day and heard my mum say "that was nice" to which my Dad replied "yes - it is in different".
Subjectivity- a wonderful thing.
Rgds
Fred