jej3

Hi All -

So I ordered a Oil Pan Stud Kit from 928 Motorsports in mid-December and apparently they've been back ordered ever since.

Unfortunately for me, I didn't open the box with other parts for my MM and OPG work to see this hand-written on the order.

While 928 Motorsports has responded promptly to my inquiry saying simply they are still backordered so I was wondering if any of the other vendors offered similar kits and am also wondering if I actually need them?

Great minds of the internet, let me know what you think!

jej3

Also, I hope no one reads this or uses this as a "Trash a Vendor" thread.

928 Motorsports have been good to deal with and at the moment have a bit of a supply and demand issue on these kits.

ROG100

To answer one of your questions - we stock stud kits - $49.95

joejoe

The studs are used as the bolts tend to back off I believe. I have not used the studs, but when I did my cars I cleaned the block threads with carb cleaner and used blue loc-tite on bolts. Torqued to correct value and no leaks (10+ years) Are they necessary?, I do not know.

jej3

@ROG100 - Email Sent.

hacker-pschorr

I changed out my pan with a silicone unit 12+ years ago.

No studs, I did use lock washers and a dab of blue loctite. No leaks.

Ad0911

I imagine that placing the seal from under the car is much easier with studs in place in stead of holes where to put bolts in.

Captain_Slow

One more who reused the bolts. I cleaned the bolt holes/threads in the block with brake cleaner and industrial pipe cleaner brush I got at Harbor Freight. Applied blue Loctite to the bolts. I used the silicone gasket. No leaks in over a year.

Carl Fausett

The benefit to studs is they have a "shoulder". Looks like the wide band on a night-crawler.

The stud gets screwed in to the block and pre-torqued with the shoulder up against the sealing surface. Then the nut goes on and off the stud as needed. It helps because you are no longer turning threads in and out of aluminum - but now its a steel nut on a steel thread instead.

Sorry we had a run on them and ran out. More on their way.

dr bob

The stud kits are a big advantage for folks using the silicone oil sump gasket. As others share, while it's possible to use Loctite on the factory bolts to keep them from loosening in service, the stud kits make things a lot easier for most. Loctite requires a very clean threaded hole in the girdle -- easy with the engine in a stand, a little tougher with the engine in the car with oil falling down the walls of the block and the girdle.

Getting just the right amount of squish on the silicone gasket is easy with the flanged nuts on the studs using my torque-screwdriver with a socket adapter. Think in the 15-20 lbs/inch range IIRC. With nylok-style nuts it gets a little more interesting, as you get to determine the breakaway torque of the locking nut, then add the desired clamping torque to that. With the nyloks, I end up drawing the nuts up evenly until they just hold the gasket in place, then adding a precise number of turns to get the right pressure on the gasket. The initial positioning is done with strips of thin paper or plastic between the gasket and the girdle for in-car fitments.


Using the factory cork or the composite cork/neoprene gaskets? Bolts work great for those, with the understanding that the gaskets will initially swell slightly with oil contact, then shrink over the years as they dry out in service. What originally appeared to be bolts working their way loose was demonstrated to be gasket shrinkage, evidenced by adding witness marks to some of the bolt heads.


So decide if you need or want studs, based on the gasket you use, then decide which kit you want based on your ability to get the right gasket pressure with the tools and location you are working with.

Crumpler

Slight hijack but, on the topic of studs: what about a stud kit for the water pump, for the same reason that Carl mentions about threading into an aluminum block?

Imo000

Your local fastener store has both the studs and the nuts in stock. Some used set screws instead of studs......they do the job just as well. However, if you feel the need to spend more money and pay for shipping, get the kit from the vendors.

dr bob

I have posed that question several times now, but no serious responses. In theory anyway, I'd love to have SS studs and locknuts for the WP. But would need to carefully measure for correct lenths because of the fit of the cover and some other possible interference issues. I have another nn years to go before I have mine apart again, and no hint of anyone in my neighborhood needing a 928 TB/WP clinic in the near future.

Carl fits black-oxide studs in his sump stud kit, good for the metalurgy and OK in the undercar service with oil. Those same studs would suffer from corrosion if used at the water pump. There are thread coatings that are suitable for SS studs, particularly some non-metallic anti-seize products and the Teflon thread sealing pastes. The challenge is that we would really like the studs to stay in place, so using a lubricating film in the threads is not an ideal solution unless there's another way to secure the studs in the block. The shouldered studs might work, if the threads in the block are sound enough to hold with the extra tension needed to secure the "shoulders" against the outer threads of the holes. Then use the flanged nuts instead of nylok-style so they don't try to pull the studs on removal.

The general rule on fitting nuts onto bolts and studs is that you want at least three bolt threads exposed beyond the nut so you do't try and "stretch" the end when torqued correctly. SS is softer (stretchier, as in 'modulus of elasticity) than carbon steel, so honoring that guidance becomes more critical. At the same time, the 'stretchier' stud is secured in the relatively soft aluminum of the block, so it too is going to be sensitive to torque applied to the nuts, else risk distorting the threads in the block.

Which brings us back around to the original "problem", which is how to avoid thread damage, corrosion, and bolt breakage at the water pump. Exactly the same care needs to be used with studs or bolts to avoid those problems. The correct bolt, with the correct protective material applied to the threads, installed with the correct torque, would be fine or better than a 'stretchy' SS stud in the same service.

Truth be known, there aren't that many TB jobs remaining for my car in my care. It's not a job I just do for the fun of it, so it will be at least nn years to the next one and another nn+2 years to the one after that. Will I still feel like hanging over the front of the car then? Who knows... I do know that the bolts that I put in last time will come out painlessly when needed, thanks to proper materials, care and prep during the previou installation. I've been fortunate enough to be the only person with tools on those bolts since the car left the factory, so complete known history is on my side too.

jej3

Lots of great replies and good information. I tend to spread my spending around with the vendors (928 International, 928 Specialists, 928sRus and 928 Motorsports).

Therefore, I was thankful that Roger had some kits in stock and could ship right away as I'm hoping to at least START my MM and OPG replacement over the weekend.

@Carl from 928 Motorsports - Thank you for your professional response to the situation and supporting an agreeable resolution!

Carl Fausett

That is correct.

About using SS fasteners in the Alusil block: be careful. Not only are SS fasteners weaker in tension and shear, but they gall in the threads of an Alusil block. Use anti-sieze to prevent galling of the stainless to the Alusil - but then that completely goes against the very reason for using studs in the first place!