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Old 02-07-2012, 12:40 PM   #1
whatudrivin
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Default My 1982 928 Project

I am just copying and pasting this information from the pelican boards. Didn't feel like typing it all again but I have made some changed to it as I have learned more about some of the details of the car since first posting this.

Hello all. Just wanting to say hi and all that jazz. Just joined here and have been doing a lot of reading over the past few days. I just purchased my first Porsche and got one hell of a deal on it(imo). I will be on here quite a bit looking for solutions to problems that I know are going to come up and just over all hanging out. Anyways here are the details of my steal. Let me know what you all think.

1982 Porsche 928 w/Competition Package VIN: WP0JA0928CS820356

The car has been parked for many years. It was my girlfriend's father's car before he passed away 3 years ago. She can remember sitting in the car when she was in 3rd grade. He purchased the car back in 1995 for $3000 running and driving. The reciept for this purchase came with the car along with the original owners manual and maintenance book. Unfortunately there aren't many entries in the service manual. The car was driven for a while after being purchased but he was in the middle of restoring another car at the time and never made it to this car. Then once he passed the car was parked and only started occasionally but never driven. So it has been sitting for at least 3-4 years. The car originally came from Virginia.

The car has 83k miles on it. The body is in perfect shape. I think there is 1 or 2 spots that the paint has chipped and the PO sprayed it with some primer to stop it from rusting. But they are very small spots. It is a Black car with black/red interrior. The car has been under an awning for the last several years and has been able to avoid weathering for the most part.

The interrior needs redone but it isnt too bad. Everything is leather. From the seats to the headliner and dash. the back seats arent bad at all but the front seats and dash need recovered. The headliner is in good shape. The car came with a car phone from the factory and the manual for the phone is still with the car. I took up the back carpet as I am about to drop the fuel tank and I had to remove the car phone box that was screwed down back there and the carpet under it was like brand new.

It was supposedly started about 2 years ago but I have been unable to start it. I tried for a bit to get it started but I lost. It would act like it wanted to start if I put a bit of gas in the intake but it wouldnt stay running. I removed the fuel pressure check valve and there was no fuel in the fuel rail. So I tried to jump the fuel relay to kick on the pump and the pump will not start. I did check to make sure there was power getting to the relay and there is. A tester light lit up when I connected pin 30 and 87 so I know that there is power there. I could not get it to light up back at the fuel pump when it was installed. I have since removed the fuel pump and tested it directly to a battery and it is dead. Tried to soak it in mineral spirits for a week or so and it still wont budge.

When I got it I was told there was no gas in it. Here is where me being impatient, and wanting to hear my newly bought car run may have caused me problems but I am doubting that since I do not think the fuel pump has powered on since I got the car. So I put 1 gallon of gas in it. I was unable to get it to start. So thinking that maybe 1 gallon was not enough I went to the store and got 2 more gallons to put in it. (This is where the more experienced people are going to shake their heads at me.) Still nothing at this point. I should have checked the fuel pressure sooner but I did not.

Anyways I went to remove the fuel pump and drained the gas..... I drained out about 5-6 gallons of gas from the car. It was almost **** yellow and smelled odd. Way different smell than any gas I have smelled before which I am assuming is due to the gas breaking down over the years. And then I removed the fuel pump. And that is where I am at with this car as of last night. I am going to pull the gas tank and see what condition it is in.

The car also came with a spare set of rims/tires. They are BBS E52 rims. Tires are almost new and have been sitting in a garage so they have not weathered too bad. But if I was to keep them they would need refinished. At this point I do not think I will be keeping these rims for use with the car. I have another color scheme in mind for the rims that I think will look really good. Just have to see when that time comes.

I payed $1000 for this car. Clean title and everything.

Here are the pictures that I have taken thus far. I have started taking apart the motor as of now. I have the spider intake off along with the fan and all belts.

Here is where I am looking for input. I need help deciding which route is going to be best for restoring this car. I have had people recommend both ways and would like to open this up for discussion.

Should I pull the motor and reseal it or should I replace the known defective fuel pump, refresh fuel lines/injectors, and try to fire her up? I know pulling the motor and resealing it would give me the best insight into the motor and its condition but I have been told that I may have to have the heads resurfaced if I was to do this. I have some money right now that I want to invest into the car and I need to know if I should get the reseal kit or if I should buy a new pump, fuel lines, and clean the fuel tank.

Anyways thanks in advance for any/all information that you guys can provide. Cheers!
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:56 PM   #2
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If it were me...I would leave the motor in for now. Clean the fuel tank, new fuel pump and flex lines. Change all fluids, clean all grounds and see how she runs. You may at some point have to pull the motor but I would only if it is necessary. There may be other things that need work after the motor is running like the transmission, suspension, steering, brakes....What money you have saved for the resto could go fast if you don't watch out.

The car has sentimental value to your girlfriend and her family which is nice. Hope you get it running soon.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:04 PM   #3
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That is kinda the route I was wanting to take. I know I should have enough money to get the fuel pump, hoses, and tank cleaned. The fluids are a given as well. I just don't want to mess anything up but I have seen many brought back from the dead w/o removing the motor. And at some point I will want to remove it just so I can clean everything out and get it looking really sharp. And the transmission is one of my biggest worries next to what needs done to get it running.

Yes it does have great sentimental value to them and that is another reason I do not care what it takes to get it restored. And if it does get sold I will offer it to them first. I am keeping everything just the way it is through out the restore per request of my girlfriend. Which works out for me anyways because I love the look of the black/red.

-edit- Here is the VIN if anyone is interested. WP0JA0928CS820356

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Originally Posted by Dean_Fuller View Post
If it were me...I would leave the motor in for now. Clean the fuel tank, new fuel pump and flex lines. Change all fluids, clean all grounds and see how she runs. You may at some point have to pull the motor but I would only if it is necessary. There may be other things that need work after the motor is running like the transmission, suspension, steering, brakes....What money you have saved for the resto could go fast if you don't watch out.

The car has sentimental value to your girlfriend and her family which is nice. Hope you get it running soon.
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:49 PM   #4
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Why, why would you do this ?? " I have started taking apart the motor as of now. I have the spider intake off along with the fan and all belts. " First thing is to do as little as possible to get it running IF you can. Then determine if the transmission works and if the head gaskets are still sealing. Also if 200 hp at the wheels floats your boat.
Restoring that car can cost $10-15,000 depending on how nice you want it to be and 2-3 times that for close to as new !
It was only worth $3,000 when he bought it in 1995 and NOTHING nice has happened to it since. How much sentimental value is there when you destroy a car ? And run down older 928s have NOT gone up in value. The $1,000 was actually too much for that car in that condition.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus View Post
Why, why would you do this ?? " I have started taking apart the motor as of now. I have the spider intake off along with the fan and all belts. " First thing is to do as little as possible to get it running IF you can. Then determine if the transmission works and if the head gaskets are still sealing. Also if 200 hp at the wheels floats your boat.
Restoring that car can cost $10-15,000 depending on how nice you want it to be and 2-3 times that for close to as new !
It was only worth $3,000 when he bought it in 1995 and NOTHING nice has happened to it since. How much sentimental value is there when you destroy a car ? And run down older 928s have NOT gone up in value. The $1,000 was actually too much for that car in that condition.
I mainly have the spider off for cleaning purposes. And the fan is off to allow easier access to check timing components. I want to replace the belts anyways before trying anything. Except the timing belt. Not going to replace it yet as it appears to be in fairly good condition.

I know it would take a good chunk of cash to get the car fully restored. And I know what the cars final worth would be. Whether I go all the way with it or not I have not decided yet. But this makes a great starter car for me to learn with.

I have done a lot of reading since I purchased the car and have found that I probably could have found a better car for that price or got one in this condition much cheaper. But I cannot look back at that with regrets as it is already done. Plus I am happy with what I paid and that is what should count, right? And I don't see what you mean by destroying a car. You mean by not driving it?

I am happy to have this in my garage and even more happy to get to work on it. The girlfriend and her family have no clue when it comes to cars which is why they just parked it. They didn't know what to do with it. I would rather fix the car up a bit than leave it to rot for who knows how many years.

I am probably just going to shoot for getting it running for now. And I know it only has about 200 hp. I know this now after purchasing the car. Again I am not worried about this. I would love to have an S4 or GT or GTS, but those are way above my head as far as price goes. I may get one later to restore when I am done doing whatever I do to this car. I don't know what I will do to this car yet. And whatever I do is more than likely going to take me a few years.

Well I went out to look at the car on my lunch break today because I was curious about the fuel lines. I found 2 lines on the passenger side by the heads that were rubber. Other than the injector lines on this car are there any other rubber lines in the engine bay? I didn't see any other ones. The only other lines I was seeing were hard lines but I didn't have much time and may have overlooked it.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by whatudrivin View Post
And I don't see what you mean by destroying a car. You mean by not driving it?

They didn't know what to do with it. I would rather fix the car up a bit than leave it to rot for who knows how many years.

I found 2 lines on the passenger side by the heads that were rubber. Other than the injector lines on this car are there any other rubber lines in the engine bay? I didn't see any other ones. The only other lines I was seeing were hard lines but I didn't have much time and may have overlooked it.
Yes they already left it to rot for many years.
Those are the only rubber fuel lines on the engine. The car could run with old accesory belts. Just have a fire exstinguisher ready as you try starting it but now you have to put the intake back on it FIRST. Right now you are out $1,000 plus the tow truck. You will never ever be this close to breaking even on that car again. Not that it matters, 928s are hobbies and fixing and spending are a big part of the fun.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:08 PM   #7
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Yes they already left it to rot for many years.
Those are the only rubber fuel lines on the engine. The car could run with old accesory belts. Just have a fire exstinguisher ready as you try starting it but now you have to put the intake back on it FIRST. Right now you are out $1,000 plus the tow truck. You will never ever be this close to breaking even on that car again. Not that it matters, 928s are hobbies and fixing and spending are a big part of the fun.
Well with no knowledge of cars they had no idea what to do with it. So I wanted to take it off their hands so it wouldn't continue to rot.

Tow truck was only $60. =) Yay for knowing the owner. And good to hear about them being the only lines. I check them and tried to bend and they weren't brittle. Still holding their shape very well. I will get a good pump and once everything is hooked back up I will pressurize the system and check for leaks before turning it over.

I now know I probably should have just left everything and flushed the lines when I got a new fuel pump and then tried to start it. But too late for that now. I need new intake gaskets to put everything back together. And there are a few hoses I want to replace before trying to start anyways.

And I am not worried about breaking even. I came from Mitsubishi's and have seen people spend 10-15,000k on a car that couldn't be sold for more than 6,000. I'm not too worried about this as it will not be coming out of my pocket all at once. It is a hobby and it will stay that way. I'm not in it to make money. I'm in it to have fun and get a few thrills. I've toyed with the idea of turboing it but, that is a long ways away if I even do it.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:25 PM   #8
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Not sure why Brutus is so upset about you're purchase. This will never be a show car, but you can get it up and running, and have some fun for well under $15 k. Do get the intake back on, and try to focus on getting it started before you get caught up in refreshing the engine. You will have bigger fish to fry...
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:37 PM   #9
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I'm gonna totally disagree with brutis here:

First, I think at '82 competition group car is a great car: Stock sport suspension, better transmission ratios make a very fun car to drive. Much more than you would think from the hp numers.

Second, you are not looking at a lot of $ to TRY to get it going. There might be a killer problem hidden in there that will make you want to walk away, but I don't see it yet. The L jet cars are much less expensive to bring back from the dead than CIS cars. I think you are mostly looking at fluids and an intake refresh.

Third, I think pulling the intake and doing a complete intake refresh is exactly the way to go. Make sure all your wires and hoses are in good shape and clean everythink up. Does not cost a thing and may solve a lot of problems.

I don't think there is any need to pull the motor and reseal. You will likely have some seepage from the pan gasket, but that will likely be true after you change it too. Very early cars tend to leak between the cam towers and head gaskets, but I don't think it is common with the later 16V cars. You may need a water pump at some point, but it is a non inteference motor, so you are not really risking anything.

For a fuel pump, I have had good luck with a $100 Walbro off ebay rather than the expensive Bosch.

For the paint, you might think about doing a PVC wrap yourself instead of having it painted. About $500 in material and a lot of time and effort, but reversable and non toxic.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:38 PM   #10
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I think it's great that your GF and her mother want to restore this 928, and big ups to you for taking on the project!

Those of us who appreciate early 928's know it is a GT car, not a sports car, and 200hp at the wheels is just fine. This car was never fast off the line even when it was brand new. However, get her out on the highway at 110 mph and you will realize what the car was intended to do.

Good luck and I hope to read and see more pics of your restoration as it progresses!
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:49 PM   #11
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Not upset at all about it. Just trying to help him not get buried in this project. If someone can not afford a decent running driving car they really can not afford a "sleeping" one no matter how little it costs.
The key is focus on what it needs to get it running not taking it apart or changing things just because you can. There is no point to cleaning the engine until you KNOW it is good running. With no coolant changes in 15 years it is really questionable. You may be swapping engines.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karl ruiter View Post
I'm gonna totally disagree with brutis here:

First, I think at '82 competition group car is a great car: Stock sport suspension, better transmission ratios make a very fun car to drive. Much more than you would think from the hp numers.

Second, you are not looking at a lot of $ to TRY to get it going. There might be a killer problem hidden in there that will make you want to walk away, but I don't see it yet. The L jet cars are much less expensive to bring back from the dead than CIS cars. I think you are mostly looking at fluids and an intake refresh.

Third, I think pulling the intake and doing a complete intake refresh is exactly the way to go. Make sure all your wires and hoses are in good shape and clean everythink up. Does not cost a thing and may solve a lot of problems.

I don't think there is any need to pull the motor and reseal. You will likely have some seepage from the pan gasket, but that will likely be true after you change it too. Very early cars tend to leak between the cam towers and head gaskets, but I don't think it is common with the later 16V cars. You may need a water pump at some point, but it is a non inteference motor, so you are not really risking anything.

For a fuel pump, I have had good luck with a $100 Walbro off ebay rather than the expensive Bosch.

For the paint, you might think about doing a PVC wrap yourself instead of having it painted. About $500 in material and a lot of time and effort, but reversable and non toxic.
The wrap is a very interesting idea. I actually know of a few guys that do that for a living and could probably get it done on the cheap. But I don't really care about the paint yet.

I may go with a Walbro for now. I have used one in another car and had no problems with it. I think it would be wise to get it then once it's up and running then worry about getting a good Bosch one and keep the Walbro for a backup.

I have about $400-$500 that I can spend on her right now. And I would love to be able to get her running for that. I think I may call/email Roger and get an intake reseal kit, clean everything up, and reassemble. \

Also I broke 2-3 of the injector connectors and will need to replace those but I already have some replacements sourced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by david_alford View Post
I think it's great that your GF and her mother want to restore this 928, and big ups to you for taking on the project!

Those of us who appreciate early 928's know it is a GT car, not a sports car, and 200hp at the wheels is just fine. This car was never fast off the line even when it was brand new. However, get her out on the highway at 110 mph and you will realize what the car was intended to do.

Good luck and I hope to read and see more pics of your restoration as it progresses!
Thank you for the good thoughts. They weren't really the ones wanting it restored. They were more looking to make sure the car went to a good home that could take care of it and bring it back to life. Someone that wouldn't continue to allow it to sit as they have.

This is a car that I can be proud to own and proud to have in my garage. This is something I have always wanted and have not until this point had. I cannot wait to hear her rumble.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:51 PM   #13
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You got your hands full, but I applaud your effort. In case you don't have the workshop manuals (not owner's manual), you can download them here:
http://www.cannell.co.uk/Manuals.htm
They're about halfway down the page.

For the injector fuel hose, if you're going to go ahead and do it now, I recommend not using the factory compression fittings. Instead, us FI line and clamps (see picture). Not sure if Roger (928 R Us still sells kits or not.) Brutus already mentioned the other soft lines near the engine. The other soft lines around the tank and pump will no doubt need replaced due to dry rot, but I think (like you), the priority would be getting the engine to fire first.

I probably wouldn't have yanked the intake yet, but, there you are... I also think you have the right idea, get it running before you pull the engine. Otherwise, you may reinstall the engine later, it still not fire, and then there's a lot more possible things that could be wrong due to wiring, mis-connecting vacuum hoses, etc.

Take lots of pictures along the way--not only to help you put stuff back together, but also to look back on once you have it restored. Good luck!
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:51 PM   #14
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Yeah, you should concentrate on getting it running, then driving before you drop a lot of cash into it. Once you're driving it, you can prioritize the refurbishment. We kinda sneak up on reliable as we drive the **** out of them... that's the best thing you can do for your new to you beast. Good luck, have fun.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus View Post
Not upset at all about it. Just trying to help him not get buried in this project. If someone can not afford a decent running driving car they really can not afford a "sleeping" one no matter how little it costs.
The key is focus on what it needs to get it running not taking it apart or changing things just because you can. There is no point to cleaning the engine until you KNOW it is good running. With no coolant changes in 15 years it is really questionable. You may be swapping engines.
I wish I knew when it was changed last. There is an inspection sticker from VA dated 1999 but I do know the car was driven to Oklahoma around that time. I don't know when they actually parked it. But the coolant does still look green and I did not see water in the oil when checking the oil.
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