Andrew930

As a 911 follower, I have no experience with the 944 cars.

Was hoping this group might be able to offer some advice.

A friend is selling a mint (literally) red/black S2 with 21k miles. Recent fluids were done, but not sure on the water pump and timing belt.

Paint and interior are pretty much flawless and it's red/black. I wouldn't normally consider anything outside of a 911 (couldn't even adapt to a Boxster Spyder), but this S2 is virtually flawless, so I thought it might be fun and some extra glitter in the garage

In addition to pricing, how do you folks feel about long term pricing and collector status?

TIA.

veleno

For collector status, not going to happen for a while.

For long term pricing, I'm pretty sure you'll get the same amount or close to what you would pay for it (considering it's not outrageous and the condition is about the same).

plumbum

Agreed...they seem to be holding there value and have been for the last 4 years I have owned 944/951's....some people try and sell them high but I don't think any of them are selling

Tom R.

Lets start with how much you would have in it when its done. There is the rubber center on the clutch that may be due for replacement. Book rate is over ten hours, parts are about $1,000 IIRC. Then there are motor mounts - $400 IIRC for parts, oil pan gasket may be dried, and since the motor mounts are off, its a while in there job. Those are the big rubber items.

Are you going to drive it, or look at it? You know the deal with the belts, dried rubber weather-stripping, dried rubber brake lines, ignition wires, etc.

Then there is the Cayman - not the S. You can get one with the same miles for mid 20s and have 50 hp more.

I don't see the S2 becoming a collector car, 21k miles is too nice to track, and as a weekend toy, there are more modern options out there for under 20k.

My number is 10-12k for that car. I owned three S2s, and I like S2s a lot, but with that being said, I wouldn't want more than 15 into it. There are too many alternatives from a new Subarota for mid 20s with same power and power/weight ratio, to a used Cayman, M3, Z, etc.

Like what was said above, a lot or people are asking high numbers. I don't think people are shelling that $$ out.

Phantoms

I paid $8900 for my 90' S2 in 2009. 86k on the clock, mint interior. The paint needed a little work on the roof and a corner of the rear bumper. Depending on recent maintenance I would say Tom R's numbers are on the money.

djantlive

The car is at least $15k. With any used car, you will put money in to make it right.

It is a great car that is low on maintenance if you start with a good example. Inspect oil leaks from engine, power steering, ac, wheel bearings, and budget $2500 at least for new clutch if bearing is original.

These are slow cars that are fun. If you want something fast and cheap, get an e46 M3. But these have old school charms

Tails

There is an excellent article in the August 2014 911 & Porsche World, #245 which give an excellent write up on two 944 Lux and a 1989 944 Turbo both with very low mileage. The price comparison is in UKP but it will give you a gauge on the condition of both vehicles. I have a 1990 951 Turbo (RHD 944) and it is a blast to drive, 250 HP and top speed around 162mph. They are not a collector's item but a low mileage car at the right price would be great.

black944 turbo

It depends on a lot of factors, but at the low end 15 k would be it. Face it, this car is 20 plus years old and perfect, it comes down to what you want to pay because they don't make them anymore. I would pay a premium only if I was going to let it sit. If not find a great example with higher mileage with all the maintenance done to drive.

RDL

Speaking of an s2 with the maintenance done and ready to drive:

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...red-944s2.html

odurandina

caution: in the world of 20+ year old P-car 4s, nothing is certain.... the difference between sorted, getting on towards basket case status or near death experience 944 -- might be just a year or 2 of very little usage... or a few months + quite a bit of driving......... over the last 25 years, I've owned 3 Porsches... but my last 2; a 928 (massively bad car) and 968 (super good car to a point) allows me to say a few words with reasonable confidence as just another of the ask how I know characters.

no one is accusing the rats of nesting in the crusties on every single S2 being put up for sale these days, but to build on Tom's post, let's be honest; since about the time Bill Clinton was elected, they've shipped a ****load of Porsches over here..... and because of this, the vast majority of them are depreciating: (some badly).

the only ones not doing that are all air-cooled 911s, limited production cars, and the really old stuff....

TO MAKE THINGS WORSE: the baby-boomers are getting old...

the demographics of collectors and car collecting is getting us closer and closer to THE BIG CRASH.

you can be as sure of this as the sun rises tomorrow, (and this fact should grow to be ever-present in our minds).


S2 ownership will continue to be an upside down proposition in the near and long term.

if it's a love affair and you don't mind spending (2.5~4X) the $$$$ out when you sell....

then sure; shop around for one you like and buy it.

I wouldn't touch an S2.... or (gulp) prolly not even a 968 at this point *unless it came cheap, almost dead,
or with an utterly-wonderfully dead engine (ready for a Mr. Goodwrench v8). yayyy!!

944s and 944Ts are also bad deals imo.... again, if it's a love affair GO FOR IT.... other than that, from a purely monetary position, (924s, 924S's and 944T acquisitions + cost of ownership) vs $$$ out will vary from horrible to downright insane.


a few years ago you could pick up 911s from the '80s and early '90s cheap.

they were the last (1~1.5X) money in/money out Porsches..... but in the last 3~4 years, prices have gone to pluto..... and save for a few sellers not paying attention, or the horse-house-husband died, the late air-cooled 911s can only be obtained at a premium, thus making them significantly more risky imo.

so why am I even mentioning this.... and how can I even be somewhat down on premium 911s?

because the conversation shouldn't stray too far from used cars and collector demographics.

it is in this context that I see most cars as high-depreciation investments in the near to long term.....

right now, the best fun for the $$$ are probably in the 996s, and to a lesser extent, Caymans and Boxsters.

if you pick up the right 996 and drive it 50~60k miles, if things go right, including addressing the ims, you should be able to get down near (2.0~2.5X) with one of those cars. add to the list some well kept Caymans Boxsters (with manual transmissions)... they can be kept around as really good cars overall, and at a significant discount.

just my 0.02. and best wishes.

.

odurandina

I've been attempting to drive the spike home on people's conventional thinking about collectable cars for several years...

once and for all: it ain't a matter of might crash it....

their departure is sure..... and their departure from the market WILL CRASH IT.

the limp-wristed/junior no-workie/video game/**** junkie/stripper paradise generation are outnumbered 3 or 4:1 vs the numbers of the i-inherited-the-richest-country-ever-from-the-war-generation/ex-hippie/lately been mostly hard-working/stock-market watching/car-collecting baby-boomers.

in real car collecting numbers, you might as well call it 327: 1.

downsizing their car collections to pay for Obamacare and prescription drugs? could it really happen?

you betcha.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ash-it-feature

yep,

depending on your sources....

Od/944 Debbie Downer Emeritus actually beat Car and Driver say it ain't so writers by 4~5 years.

mel_t_vin

Or...396:1.

A little tongue in cheek?