cruise98

I just received my new policy for the coming year and they have added a new definition. They call it "definition M. Driving contest or challenge includes, but it not limited to: 1. A competition... "2. An activity that challenges the speed or handling characteristics of a vehicle or improves or demonstrates driving skills, provided the activity occurs on a track or course that is closed from non-participants."

I am no legal expert, but that sounds like a DE to me. I thought there was case law that required Insurance Companies to provide coverage for driver education events.

Unless we can cause them to change their minds, it may be time for a new insurance company.

Robert D

That is the definition of an exclusion to the policy? Ouch. I always had faith in USAA.
-Robert D.

Micah

Some full-bird Col. must've put his new 996 into a wall <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Micah

Geo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by cruise98:
<strong>I just received my new policy for the coming year and they have added a new definition. They call it "definition M. Driving contest or challenge includes, but it not limited to: 1. A competition... "2. An activity that challenges the speed or handling characteristics of a vehicle or improves or demonstrates driving skills, provided the activity occurs on a track or course that is closed from non-participants."
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Interesting that they will not cover a demonstration of speed and handling on a track or course close from non-participants, but will likely cover one on a public road.

Something is wrong there.

Doug Donsbach

Well, good. Insurance policys *should* exclude DE's. Why should my rates bump because some guy totaled his new M3?

cruise98

George:

I thought that phrase was rather strange as well. Seems if you race on the street, everything will be covered.

The idea behind a DE is that you improve your skills and as a result are less likely to crash on the street. I would think the insurance companies would like people to improve their skills. Our club has never had a crash at TGPR but the new Barber track may be a different animal.

Skip

State Farm still does... at least in my state.

S

Ahmet

I bet you could still get money out of them if you were to get in an accident on track. It's not a demonstration of skill, or timed, or a competition oriented event. As long as you're not clocking yourself, you should be OK. I'd suggest talking to your agent (anonymously ofcourse, unless you know him personally). If somebody clearly tells you that a DE is out of the question than ofcourse it is but otherwise it's a Drivers' Education event afterall...
Ahmet

streckfu's

Wow. I use USAA and will have to look into that.
I was hoping to finally attend a DE next year. Any one know if there is a company that will set a stand alone policy just for DEs? I'm sure it would be expensive if they would....

TimS

Hold on folks! Before rushing out and getting new insurance, take the time to read your own policy. I just examined my Virginia USAA policy (and yes, I'm a lawyer . . . we all have burdens to bear <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> ), and it retains the old language that the only exclusion is on a track competing in or preparing for or practicing for an organized race or speed event.

While it would certainly appear that the policy in Alabama has been changed to exclude Driver's Ed (and no matter what you call it, it pretty clearly falls within that exclusion), this doesn't mean that it has changed in YOUR state. Check with you agent or local lawyer to make sure . . if it hasn't, pray the State Insurance Commissioner participates in Driver's Ed. Remember, these policies are approved by the sate and all changes to the base policy are approved by the state . . . lobby away!

Why this new exclusion is limited to educational events conducted on closed courses is only a guess, but I would posit that it is to allow "ordinary" driver's schools to continue to operate. Presumably those students are not testing the limits of the Chevy Corsica, they are only trying to get to the grocery and back.

Just a thought.

Tim

Matt O.

Does that include an auto-x you think? I have USAA as well.

A good business would be to start track-side insurance or something.

I too wanted to DE and was going to call USAA about this soon (looking to VIR in August). So this is not good news. Need to check.

TimS

Auto-cross is a TIMED event. IT is almost NEVER covered by ordinary collision/liability. So, if you take out the lamp pole, neither the car nor the pole is covered! At a DE if you take out the Timing and Scoring Tower . . . hello insurance!

Dan Gallagher

I assumed all insurance companies would laugh at you if you crashed at a DE on a track. can anybody recommend an insurance company in new york that will cover me if i decide to try a de this summer?

Tabor

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dan Gallagher:
<strong>I assumed all insurance companies would laugh at you if you crashed at a DE on a track. can anybody recommend an insurance company in new york that will cover me if i decide to try a de this summer?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Almost all insurance companies cover DE events. This is because almost all insurance companies only exclude "timed events". Personally I would look into State Farm, but make sure the New York policy does in fact cover DE events.

Z-man

There are special insurance companies that will cover your car for track driving, including DE's, Time Trials, and Club races. (Obviously, no one would do club racing in a $100k car if there were no insurance!) I don't remember how much track insurance is. (Perhaps M758 can shed some light here?!) I have heard some people will by track insurance in addition to their regular insurance for their car that they run on both road and track. (That's less than full-fledged track insurance)

Regarding 'normal' street insurance: there are basically 3 camps insurance companies fall into regarding driving your car in a DE program:
1. No coverage: sounds like this is what the 'new and improved' USAA insurance has adpoted. Also: collector type insurance explicitly states that they will not cover your car on the track. (Side bar: there was a guy who wrecked his 911 last year: he had collector insurance)!

2. First time coverage: some companies will cover your first major incident at a track, and then all bets are off: you're on your own after the first!

3. Normal coverage: some companies will cover you again and again if you have multiple track incidents. However, your rates will probably be effected by multiple accidents!

Also note: if you have car-to-car contact, and it's someone else's fault, that person is NOT liable for any damage to your car! Neither is the car club, and neither is the track, provided that they have not been negligent.

That said, "my friend's" insurance policy states that there is coverage for my (er, his) car at a DE event as long as the event is:
a: not timed, and
b: not a race or race-prep (test and tune) event.

Hope this helps!
-Z.