r911

While I appreciate your desire to sell products, I do NOT find that article adequate evidence of superior performance.

Porsche gives them an N4 based on various criteria, not all of which relate to performance.

The tread design alone seems to be less than ideal by today's standards. The question is not whether they give overall performance "better than a lot of modern tyres", it is whether a sporting driver can find any tire with better sports performance than the CN36, and if they want to pay the cost in terms of tread life, noise and comfort.

I don't claim you want a fast buck, but I'll need to see some real data to buttress your opinion. I am very familiar with the "happy & informed customer" business model, so don't take my comments the wrong way. Maybe they really are better in terms of cornering stopping, and high speed than, say, Direzza but I'll have to see the data.

Dougal Cawley

I'm sorry, i don't really understand what data you would want. there it is, a modern tyre test. I have never seen anything like that done for a classic car before.

Maybe you might be able to get better scores with racing rubber like the Michelin TB tyres http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page...-classic-tyres but a tyres performance is always a balance. you might be able to increase straight line dry braking with a wider, softer foot print but that will increase aquaplaning and spoil the high speed cornering. and of course softer racing compounds will effect longevity and deteriorate quicker with age.

r911

I like statistically valid, double-blind "stuff" that compares all tire available. You know, data.

This is about sporty street tires.

I'd love to believe that the CN36's are really better than others...

mel_t_vin

What is the primary purpose of the car? Are you leaning toward performance for spirited canyon carving or longevity for casual grand touring?

My suggestion would be to run a factory fitment 195/65 on the 6s up front and a factory fitment 215/60 on the 7s out back. Depending on your driving style [and heat of the moment], running a square set up will undoubtedly result in more oversteer when you least want/need it...under directional transitions and trail braking.

Tire Rack has about 10 tires in a 195/215 combo, including BFGoodrich, Firestone, Fuzion, General, Kumho, Sumitomo, and Pirelli. The stickiest [180 tw], most expensive [$175/$245], Pirelli P6000 is even Porsche N2 rated. For a more economical [$53/$55] alternative, would look at the Fuzion Touring [400 tw].

Dougal Cawley

That is exactly what that tyre test is.

When you score a 1 that means that is as good as any tyre, be it classic modern or what ever you like.

r911

My German is very ein bischen, but it is nonetheless clear that is not true.

It is getting tiresome to argue with you. Anyone can look at the tread and compare it with a modern tire.

If you think there is something magical in the carcass construction that can compensate for that, then post some photos of a cut up tire.

Dougal Cawley

It is getting tiresome to argue with you. However while you insist on disputing the facts i am compelled to answer.

Yes this is the whole point. there is something "magical" about the carcass of the CN36. It is designed to be used with cars of this period.

In an attempt to show the bit of difference that is visible the shape of the shoulders is crical. I have just gone a photographed a modern tyre which is the firs t picture posted the second picture is a CN36. the aim of this picture is to demonstrate that the modern tyre has a wide square foot print that is developed to suit the modern set up; ie loads of Caster, adverse camber all counteracted by modern powersteering. The CN36 is developed to be fitted to a car that does not have these things; so the driver benefits from it having a different style of carcass.

If you have modified your car to suit modern tyres then that is different.

Freddie Two Bs

Aside from the pissing match, can you only buy these tires or tyres from a UK website? They don't sell them here?

r911

just pay the shipping if you really want them

you'll get the tread shape in cross-section, likely an older designed carcass construction, and an old timey tread design pattern - perfect for concours if not for driving

or wait and see if someone will do a test of them vs. something like the N2 spec tires mentioned or the Dunlops

Dougal Cawley

Just to reiterate r911 is completely wrong, with this point. they drive better on CN36

We ship the Cinturato CN36 to most of the world free, and it rarely takes a week

This web site is a bity behind the times but it does list all the internationnal dealers https://www.cinturato.net/

http://www.lucasclassictires.com/PIR...turato_c54.htm do it in the States.

r911

Doug - [1] you were asked about the carcass construction and never answered that.

[2] You opined that the Xsectional shape of the tread is better for the older 911s. maybe so, tho many are very happy with more modern tires

[3] the tread pattern is another important factor in tire performance, and the CN36s do not have a modern tread pattern, as is evident from the photos.

If we assume you are correct about factor #2 it would have to outweigh other factors for this to be the best tire for a 911.

I urge anyone interested to read up on tire design. There are numerous non-technical articles available for those not wanting to get into the engineering literature (or how don't want to pay for access).

Finally, one can do testing to find if one tire is faster on a track, and/or feels better subjectively. Such tests test are valid ONLY if they are double-blind and have adequate replicates to assure statistical validity. I don't see anything like that in your magazine article, nor does it test against all other tires available in this category.

74 911s

I assume you have stock flares?

The answer is how low do you want to go? 205/50s are very small in the well unless you lower the car significantly. Your speedo will get messed up too. But definitely zippy.

With a 7" wide wheel on a narrowbody midyear I would go with a 205/55. I had 205/50 all around for a while and it looked pretty killer but I wanted it a little higher, and also to fill the well out, so a 205/55 seemed like a good option. I ended up moving to 16's but I'm not after a stock midyear look. If you are after the classic look, go with 6" cookies or fuchs all around and Pirelli P zeros

Dougal Cawley

You again.

Still battling away for some unknown reason, hell bent on knocking an excellent tyre for your cars.

An excellent tyre made by Pirelli, one of the worlds best manufacturers. Made to suit the the Classic Porsche. Porsche have put the N4 homologation on it saying they are approved by Porsche. (That is Porsche, Not Longstone Tyres; Porsche, the people that built these cars) An independent magazine have done a modern tyre test on it and rated it as excellent. However you know better.

As i have said before this is a modern tyre test, so when it scores a 1, that means as good as it gets. When my children get their GCSE results and they score an A i am over the moon. I don't need to see every other child in the countries results to know that the A is excellent. In this case, bare in mind this this is a very old car getting such high scores in a modern tyre test is extraordinary. It is because it is a tyre developed to suit the car and a car developed to work in conjunction with tyres like the CN36.

When making tyres there is a certain amount of trade off, in that you can't make a tyre for anything that will give a 1 score in every discipline; because, for example, what you do, to make a car handle well in the bends, on a perfectly smooth, dry, race track. Is apposed to what you do, to make a tyre stop you well in the wet, on a rough road, in a straight line. getting that balance right is difficult, but that is why you buy tyres from Pirelli and Michelin.

Any way back to our friend r911 accusations

1. I think i have pretty much answered most of the questions asked of me, though it has been difficult to maintain patience with you, as you seem to ignore anything i say, the testing independent magazines make and you ignore Porsche recommendations. However what is the question i have not answered about the carcass?

2. Yes. and yes people with a nice car will be happy on a modern tyre but it will be nicer on the CN36.

3. the tread patterns are not so important except for when you benefit from an asymmetric or a directional tyre and particularly in the wet. Assuming the compounds and carcass are the same, a directional tread design will probably move water out the way better than a non directional tyre. However the CN36 does have tread that goes round the shoulders of the tyre to let the water exit, which is pretty good. However what makes it better is the fact it has a rounded carcass, and not a massively wide foot print, where it rides up onto the bow wave and aquaplanes. wider foot prints aquaplane more, rounded carcass move the water better.



All things considered, to other people reading this can i recommend ignoring what r911 has to say. and in the sake of being fair, just ignore everything i have to say, and just look at the facts from the independent tyre test and from the recommendations from Porsche http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page...-porsche-tyres

If you want to buy the Cinturato CN36 you can get them here http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page...cinturato-cn36

r911

I can't tell if you are merely dissembling to hawk your wares or if you truly do not understand tire construction and design. I am leaving town now but will try to make more specific comments later.

r911

I don't care what tire people put on their tires, and have Pirellis on my SUV. I do not work for or won stock in any tire co., no other affiliations either. But this a public forum to help people with their 911s, so I suggest you lose the "you again" attitude.

If anyone wants to translate that article, I will try to take a closer look at it, but it is clear that no statistical validity exists as there are NO error bars on the histograms. That means one cannot distinguish variation from other factors (e.g. random variation, individual tires, etc.) from the brand differences. Another issue is placebo effect. And they did not test other tires that are commonly available.

Your comments make it clear that you do not understand modern tire design, much less the above problems with the test.

The CN36 was not well received as a performance tire when introduced - an internet search can find some comments on that, not to mention reading through old magazines, including Pano.

There is a huge engineering literature on tire design for sports use and even if cannot be accessed by the general public for free, there are also a number of texts on the subject. Modern tires have become creatures of high technology and tremendous effort is put into their design. Tread patterns are foten partly randomized to avoid resonances for example.

Here is useful primer that anyone can read:
http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/hel...tire-made.html

Note the stmt. on the profile.

OTOH, the rounded tread cross-section could help give the rie a more progressive breakaway, that is easier to sense by the driver. It certainly resembles the tires used back in ye olden days and should be useful for concours.