tone40

in December's Excellence. On page 64, the author states that the car has a 3.8 liter flat six comprised of a 3.6 liter 993 crankcase with a 996 GT3 crankshaft.

I assume that both engines (993 and 996) have the same firing order & crank positions/shapes. Do all standard 911s have the same firing order and crank shapes/positions, regardless of stroke?

What year group 911s have interchangeable crankshafts?

Just curious. Thanks.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Indeed, 993 and GT-3 motors have the same firing orders, as do all the air-cooled engines. Crankshafts differ by stroke and main bearing journal size.

Be aware that the 996/997 engines are totally and completely different from the GT-3, GT-2, and Twin-Turbo engines.

race911

To elaborate on Steve's comments, crank interchangability in brief:

A 66mm or 70.4 stroke crank will fit in any up-to-2.7L engine, plus the 3.0 930 and its normally aspirated cousin, the ROW Carerra 3.0

The 3.0 SC/3.2/3.3 930 are interchagable in those cases. I'm blanking on if the main journals are the same on these cranks as the 964, 993, and air cooled based water cooleds. I believe the first 964 (74.4 stroke) crank in a 3.2L case I heard of was the Ernie King 914-6 Ted at German Precision set up circa 1990. Again, not sure the extent of the machining required to make it all work.

whalebird

If not clear in the above posts, the later 996/997 GT2/3 and Turbo engine is based on the aircooled case carried over from the 993 era. Iit still has a dry sump oil system with an external oil tank on top of the engine itself. This is completely different than the standard 996/ boxster based watercooled motor.
The Singer is an interesting car; I would like to see some hot lap numbers.

GTgears

Wait until car #3 gets finished. The prototype and the first production car were pretty much built as street rods. The one that's currently being built is going to be a bit more racey than the other two. I know this because it's got our special ratio gears in it...

whalebird

Thanks for the insight GT. It will be interesting to see where all this work leads. I think the limitations of the basic chassis are known so this engine/set up combination should yeild predictable results in the hands of a skilled driver. I would expect it to be a good performer.

Ed Hughes

I'm following these cars intently. I doubt I'd ever buy one, but a fantastic concept IMO.

clutch-monkey

^ agreed. i'd like to see it done with other marques too to be honest, say an E24 M635csi redone in a similar fashion for example.

whalebird

I like this concept as well. The muscle car guys have done this some with the likes of Year One. There is a shop in Chas. SC that does nothing but vintage Corvettes(Jamison's) - 100 point restored 50's/60's bodies bolted to a C6 chassis. They have an entire assembly line - awesome cars to be honest.

I've mused the idea of a similar applique to a full size Ford Bronco(I've been driving/restoring my 88)...maybe a Ted Nugent eddition (he has a collection of Broncos).
There are so many timeless classics this could work for. You gotta hand it to Ford for giving us the GT.
How about a 914 with a Boxster drivetrain, or a VW bus/Vanagon with Porsche underpinnings. the possibilities are endless.

Matt Lane

Nice idea, but as much as I wanted to fall in love, the article kind of left me cold.

Lot's of show, ton's of $$$$, just not sorted out.

I am aware of at least one local car that was likewise a beauty, but in reality less than the sum of its parts.

They should ensure that they submit a well set up example for their next coverage. Can't afford to be building cars that look hot, cost a fortune and ride so-so.

Ed Hughes

I think they jumped the gun to get press, but I believe it will get sorted. Suspension is the easy part, IMO.

Matt Lane

You're right. Sounds like the underlying components are all there.

Looking forward to the next. Was I correct in reading this was a $300K build?

Matt

Ed Hughes

Thats' what I gathered, but it sounds like their typical will be sub-$200K. The Tag clock alone is stupid money. I heard they have #3 on the schedule.

GTgears

I absolutely think that's what they did. I think they didn't want to miss the chance to be part of Monterey on a year when the featured marque was Porsche. They were just a bit behind the curve and like many at SEMA where cars often show up in Vegas and don't even run.

Bill Verburg

The Singer Motors are built by Geoffrey Ring and Colin Belton
they are based on 993 blocks(964 can also be used), w/ late GT3 cranks and oil systems
various rods can be used from custom steel to stock Ti all w/ custom pistons
heads can be modified 993 or custom 9m
Motec engine management is key.

water cooling and 4 valve heads aren't used in these engines, that would be too easy

there are many variants running around built in various parts of the country and world.

here are the specs of another one,( not Singer)

Rebuilt 993 / 964 RSR LONG BLOCK Engine

---StrekFLYWHEEL HP 402, torque @ 333

---DYNO Rear Wheel 335 hp, 279 torque---verified dyno Streksheets available

---Details:

Displacement 3.8

NEW Wosner ps & cs 12-1 compression, bore in 109mm version

NEW Porsche Motorsports RSR Cams---Genuine

NEW GT3 RSR Crank---Genuine

REBUILTStrekGT3 RSR Titainium Rods---Genuine

NEW RSR cam spray bars

Converted GT3 Engine Case, modified & prepared by Ollies, shuffle pined, boat tailed, polished internals

NEW GT3 RSR Oil Pump---Genuine

Rebuilt 959 Intermediate Shaft---Genuine

Rebuilt adjustible Rocker Arms & Shafts

Rebuilt Heads with 51.5mm intake & 49mm exhaust valves by Aasco

Aasco Valve Springs & Retainers

993 Twin Turbo Head Studs NEW