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Are all forged wheels created equal?
Looking to get a set of after market forged wheel. My research returned a lot of different makes and model with price ranging from $600 - $1800/piece. Beside the brand, they all claimed to be forged wheel.
I know the old saying of you get what you paid for, but is it really make that much of a different when it comes to forged wheel? I would think the process is pretty much the same if they are all forged...no? What are the things to look out for when it comes to forged wheel? Is it safer to go with big brand name like HRE, BBS, etc.? Or are they pretty much marketing hype ? |
Not all are created equal. Not all are fully forged. There are wheels out there using "forged" in the description, but when you read the details it is just the barrel / rim of the wheel. They cast the spoke profile and the outer blank and then rotary forge / roll form the shape of the barrel by heating and stretching with rollers. This is significantly different from a fully forged monoblock or multi-piece wheel. Proper forging is heating the metal blank and then using significant pressure to force it into a shape. The work-hardening done to the material as it is forced to flow changes the strength properties of the material allowing similar wheel strength at lower weight.
It is possible to make a fully cast wheel as strong as a fully forged wheel. It simply weighs more at the same strength. The middle ground is the flow formed wheels. This is HRE's "flow formed" line, or most anything from Enkei or OZ Racing. BBS also has a flow-formed line of wheels. So do Apex, Konig, Motegi, and Forgestar, and there are plenty of others. Stepping up to a fully forged wheel, whether monoblock or multi-piece is usually a significant step in cost as well. You can get the HRE flow-formed wheels for $600 each, but their cheapest forged monoblock wheel starts at $1200 each if I recall correctly. You'll see similar pricing on fully forged wheels from Forgeline, Fikse, Braid, TWS, CCW, a few site sponsors I can't recall the name off right now, and quite a few others in the aftermarket wheel industry. All of them are eventually a wear item on the car. All of them have the same potential to crack and break if overloaded, or if you smack a piece of debris or a giant pothole in the road. It really comes down to how much you are willing to spend and what weight you're willing to accept. |
Originally Posted by Scooby921
(Post 15730501)
Not all are created equal. Not all are fully forged. There are wheels out there using "forged" in the description, but when you read the details it is just the barrel / rim of the wheel. They cast the spoke profile and the outer blank and then rotary forge / roll form the shape of the barrel by heating and stretching with rollers. This is significantly different from a fully forged monoblock or multi-piece wheel. Proper forging is heating the metal blank and then using significant pressure to force it into a shape. The work-hardening done to the material as it is forced to flow changes the strength properties of the material allowing similar wheel strength at lower weight.
It is possible to make a fully cast wheel as strong as a fully forged wheel. It simply weighs more at the same strength. The middle ground is the flow formed wheels. This is HRE's "flow formed" line, or most anything from Enkei or OZ Racing. BBS also has a flow-formed line of wheels. So do Apex, Konig, Motegi, and Forgestar, and there are plenty of others. Stepping up to a fully forged wheel, whether monoblock or multi-piece is usually a significant step in cost as well. You can get the HRE flow-formed wheels for $600 each, but their cheapest forged monoblock wheel starts at $1200 each if I recall correctly. You'll see similar pricing on fully forged wheels from Forgeline, Fikse, Braid, TWS, CCW, a few site sponsors I can't recall the name off right now, and quite a few others in the aftermarket wheel industry. All of them are eventually a wear item on the car. All of them have the same potential to crack and break if overloaded, or if you smack a piece of debris or a giant pothole in the road. It really comes down to how much you are willing to spend and what weight you're willing to accept. For more info about what we do to make ourselves different, check out the video below. For something even cooler, check out what we do in regards to pushing the boundaries of tomorrow's wheel :) |
They most certainly are not. Part of the problem is people started throwing the word "forged" all over the place. A rotary "forged" wheel has very little forged about it.The barrel is spun with some amount of pressure (300ish tons) but that's just a quick and efficient way to shape a wheel as opposed to cutting it. So because there is heat and pressure involved the word "forged" was used to describe this process. Also because forged is a great buzz word. Just like "aerospace grade billet aluminum." Street name - 6061 aluminum.
A truly forged wheel takes a single ingot, and forms a wheel into a general shape with up to 8000 tons of force. This compresses and transforms the grain structure making an all together stronger piece of material. Because this is a much stronger piece of material the wheel can then be machined lighter since there is much more strength from the material itself in the wheel design, as opposed to simply needing more material to make a wheel of proper strength. So at the motorsports level, I would only be looking at a traditionally forged monoblock, and stay away from cast or "rotatory forged" wheels. They're fine for driving down the street, but I wouldn't wanna put a Hoosier on them and put nearly 2Gs into them around the turns. Let me know if I can assist with a quote for the best traditionally forged wheels in the business. I'm a dealer for Finspeed and now thru April 15th they're running a promo for $300 off a set of wheels. Each wheel is engineered and machined precisely for your application, so the Finspeed wheel you stick on your Porsche is quite a bit different than the wheel I put on my Corvette. Having just visited their factory I can tell you the level of engineering and craftsmanship they put into these things is at at the highest level. https://amtmotorsport.com/blogs/news...amt-motorsport |
So true. For example our aluminum is sourced in California using the same supplier as major OEM's. Not all alumimum is sourced here in the USA. Also many factories are not TÜV verified, the toughest standards to meet & pass.
You can learn more in our 5 part series on our Vossen Forged Factory Below. Video is a bit old we have made quite a few updates. Our high standards and quality enables us to partner with amazing brands, like the LeMans winning Champion team at Champion Motorsport |
Thanks for all the feedback, very informative. That give me a total different view when looking at wheels and definitely helps me narrow down selection.
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There's an important distinction that has been alluded to, but not really clarified.
A "forged monoblock" wheel, as the term is typically thrown around, refers to a wheel that is milled from a billet. That billet is forged into the wheel's rough shape, but has no spokes. The spokes are then milled away. Forged blank: http://www.smw.com/data/uploads/prod...2701578748.jpg Differences in pricing can be due to a number of factors: suppliers, marketing, digital testing, real-world testing, certification, etc. A more expensive wheel isn't automatically better. A die-forged wheel has the rough spoke shape done in the forging process. Such wheels are rare because the tooling is very expensive. The grain structure is further aligned toward to the wheel's final shape. BBS, Rays, Neez, Fuchsfelge have used this process on a few of their wheels. There is still a milling post process for the final shape. Here is the Fuchs process. And a Fuchs tool: https://www.fuchsfelge.com/fileadmin...eprozess_2.jpg https://www.fuchsfelge.com/fileadmin...tzen_Kopie.png https://www.fuchsfelge.com/fileadmin...hlag_Kopie.png https://www.fuchsfelge.com/fileadmin...hlag_Kopie.png https://www.fuchsfelge.com/fileadmin...ocht_Kopie.png https://www.fuchsfelge.com/fileadmin...opie_Kopie.png https://www.fuchsfelge.com/fileadmin...teil_Kopie.png Original Fuchs (even as they are manufactured today) still use a design that is essentially 50 years old. It is generally accepted that although the original wheels are fully forged, the design could be stronger. Fully forged wheels are rare - even in motorsports. |
Nowadays I was able to find to companies making fully forged wheels for $500 and $600. All the rest were at $1000 and up. As with everything, industry is progressing, and prices are going down!
RSR Forged Browse them on Fitment instagram.com/rsr_wheels VS Forged They have quite a selection for this price range. More options than RSR. VS is a collab between Vertini and Stance brands (hence the VS). So if you look up either of those brands on CARiD, you'll find the same wheels. Stance and Vertini brands sell flow-forged (hybrid) wheels individually, while the combo VS Forged brand sells the fully-forged wheels. Browse them on CARiD. instagram.com/stancewheels instagram.com/vertiniwheels instagram.com/vsforged I just ordered these :D: https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...ead4053afa.jpg (But for my Shelby GT350) |
Originally Posted by Mark@AMT Motorsport
(Post 15730523)
They most certainly are not. Part of the problem is people started throwing the word "forged" all over the place. A rotary "forged" wheel has very little forged about it.The barrel is spun with some amount of pressure (300ish tons) but that's just a quick and efficient way to shape a wheel as opposed to cutting it. So because there is heat and pressure involved the word "forged" was used to describe this process. Also because forged is a great buzz word. Just like "aerospace grade billet aluminum." Street name - 6061 aluminum.
A truly forged wheel takes a single ingot, and forms a wheel into a general shape with up to 8000 tons of force. This compresses and transforms the grain structure making an all together stronger piece of material. Because this is a much stronger piece of material the wheel can then be machined lighter since there is much more strength from the material itself in the wheel design, as opposed to simply needing more material to make a wheel of proper strength. So at the motorsports level, I would only be looking at a traditionally forged monoblock, and stay away from cast or "rotatory forged" wheels. They're fine for driving down the street, but I wouldn't wanna put a Hoosier on them and put nearly 2Gs into them around the turns. Let me know if I can assist with a quote for the best traditionally forged wheels in the business. I'm a dealer for Finspeed and now thru April 15th they're running a promo for $300 off a set of wheels. Each wheel is engineered and machined precisely for your application, so the Finspeed wheel you stick on your Porsche is quite a bit different than the wheel I put on my Corvette. Having just visited their factory I can tell you the level of engineering and craftsmanship they put into these things is at at the highest level. https://amtmotorsport.com/blogs/news...amt-motorsport Not all forged wheels are made from 6061 alloy. There are 6000 series alloys with as much as 40% higher tensile strength than 6061. The 6061 alloy is widely available and a little cheaper than other alloys so that's why you see it everywhere. A more important factor is what type of forging press was used and how much pressure does it generate. A conventional 10,000 ton press makes stronger blanks than an 8000 ton press due to the fine grain structure. The chemistry of the alloy, pressure used, and the skills at heat treating are paramount. Finally, the wheel engineer must know the alloy and all its properties, and design spoke shapes that resist bending. In the end, a lightweight forged mono block wheel with good stiffness adds to vehicle performance, improved ride quality, and perhaps most important of all, adds to driver confidence on the track. |
Originally Posted by Emotion_Mike
(Post 17560335)
There is no legal definition for the word "Forged". However, there is a big difference between true rotary forged (google it) wheels and the Flow formed cast wheels that use "Rotary Forged" as a marketing term.
Not all forged wheels are made from 6061 alloy. There are 6000 series alloys with as much as 40% higher tensile strength than 6061. The 6061 alloy is widely available and a little cheaper than other alloys so that's why you see it everywhere. A more important factor is what type of forging press was used and how much pressure does it generate. A 10,000 ton press makes stronger blanks than an 8000 ton press due to the fine grain structure. The chemistry of the alloy, pressure used, and the skills at heat treating are paramount. Finally, the wheel engineer must know the alloy and all its properties, and design spoke shapes that resist bending. In the end, a lightweight forged mono block wheel with good stiffness adds to vehicle performance, improved ride quality, and perhaps most important of all, adds to driver confidence on the track. |
This^ VS has some beautiful wheels. I had a coworker with VS on his M3 Coupe.
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Originally Posted by trusktr
(Post 17561514)
Hello! What are your thoughts on VS Forged? http://vsforged.com Any hints as to the quality? They did a really good job stylistically, I love the designs.
My advice is to stick to companies that are very transparent about this. There is nothing proprietary about test data, so don't accept that as an excuse. The real challenge occurs when you try to maximize the benefit of forged material by making the wheels as light as possible (otherwise why bother with forged material?). Then testing is absolutely essential. The best test protocol is the TUV Teile Gutachten. It's an independent test that is wickedly difficult. You can't fake it. You gotta pass the test, and that's it. Takes all the mystery out of it. TUV performs the testing and certification on behalf of the German Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt (like our DOT). And if you get caught in Germany without the proper approvals and paperwork, the cops call a tow truck and impound your vehicle. In the end, just ask for the test data. If they won't give it to you, I suggest you move on to something else. |
there are 3 kinds of forged wheels
Originally Posted by IMPorsche
(Post 15730325)
Looking to get a set of after market forged wheel. My research returned a lot of different makes and model with price ranging from $600 - $1800/piece. Beside the brand, they all claimed to be forged wheel.
I know the old saying of you get what you paid for, but is it really make that much of a different when it comes to forged wheel? I would think the process is pretty much the same if they are all forged...no? What are the things to look out for when it comes to forged wheel? Is it safer to go with big brand name like HRE, BBS, etc.? Or are they pretty much marketing hype ? One piece wheels have advantages include simplicity, low cost, and lack of necessity of maintenance. Two piece welded wheels are able to be constructed to a specified set of dimensions (varied offset / backspace). Two piece bolted wheels consist of the face and the barrel, attached to each other via bolts. A major advantage of this type of wheel is that if the barrel is bent or otherwise damaged, it may be possible to be replaced without replacing the whole wheel. Three piece wheels have two piece barrels and a face, and in some cases are able to be modified by changing one of the barrel pieces to make a wider (or narrower) wheel. that is one reason, why the price is so difference . we are forged wheels manufacturer in China, our website http://jlwheels-manufacturer.com/ |
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