| GROUP BUY | Musicar Audio Upgrades for BOSE 992
#16
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I've been looking forward to this for a while. I have a Musicar level 3 systems w/ subwoofer in my F80 M3 and it's been running trouble free for over 7 yrs!
I have a few questions for what you're offering for the 992:
1. How does the stage 2 or stage 3 systems compare to Porsche's Burmester in terms of bass output and overall sound quality? I picked Bose hoping there would be a better aftermarket upgrade path that provided better SQ than Burmester... did I make the right decision?
2. Is there a significant difference btw stage 2 and stage 3 systems in terms of bass performance - both how deep and how loud it gets? Or is it really just a more refined sound with stage 3?
3. If I get the stage 3 system, would it still be available before year end? If not, when do you anticipate the prototype speakers being available?
4. If I get the stage 2 system now, is there an upgrade path to add the stage 3 speakers later? Would I have to ship the amp/DSP back to you to tune for the stage 3 speakers?
5. Can you recommend an installer in the greater Phoenix AZ area? Preferably in the East Valley (Gilbert, Chandler, Tempe, Scottsdale)?
Thanks Nick!
I have a few questions for what you're offering for the 992:
1. How does the stage 2 or stage 3 systems compare to Porsche's Burmester in terms of bass output and overall sound quality? I picked Bose hoping there would be a better aftermarket upgrade path that provided better SQ than Burmester... did I make the right decision?
2. Is there a significant difference btw stage 2 and stage 3 systems in terms of bass performance - both how deep and how loud it gets? Or is it really just a more refined sound with stage 3?
3. If I get the stage 3 system, would it still be available before year end? If not, when do you anticipate the prototype speakers being available?
4. If I get the stage 2 system now, is there an upgrade path to add the stage 3 speakers later? Would I have to ship the amp/DSP back to you to tune for the stage 3 speakers?
5. Can you recommend an installer in the greater Phoenix AZ area? Preferably in the East Valley (Gilbert, Chandler, Tempe, Scottsdale)?
Thanks Nick!
1.) Stage Two outperforms Burmester in nearly every way. Just like Bose, the Burmester system is a limited factory design that doesn't optimize the experience for the driver. We get better stereo separation, better overall frequency response and a more dynamic sound. Your decision to pick Bose was a solid one in my opinion. If you only went to Stage Two, you're still getting better performance for the same overall investment as the Burmester system.
2.) The Stage Two improves the bass output over the Bose system by a good margin. Stage Three just refines that sound and gives us more texture and control. The midrange is also vastly more pure and natural. We are working on a dedicated subwoofer option for 991 an 992 coupes at the moment that will be a direct retrofit to the Stage Three system(Stage Three PLUS). I wouldn't expect that to ship until late winter or early spring 2023.
3.) The goal is to have everything ordered before 11/30 to be shipped by the end of the year. If for some reason our speakers for the Stage Three upgrade aren't going to be ready by then, we'll ship the Stage Two out separately and then the Stage Three upgrade shortly after.
4.) I think my answer to the last questions covers this, but yes, it is a linear upgrade path. Stage One can be Stage Two can be Stage Three can be Stage Three Plus. We will walk you through loading a new tune on the DSP, but all that's needed is a laptop and a USB cable.
5.) I have a few acquaintances in AZ I will look into and circle back. If there are enough folks in the group buy from that area I wouldn't be opposed to making a trip for a group install.
Eventually, but the market for that version has been fairly low in the past. We won't put effort into developing that until after we get the Base Stereo versions handled.
@12v Nick I’m in. Email sent.
Absolutely. We ship worldwide.
Nick,
I'm in! I'm going with just the tweeters for my GT3 to start, so Stage One. I will send you an email. I'll likely upgrade to Stage 2 or 3 at some point, but can't decide right now which way on that front and would like to hear the system with just the tweeters first anyway. I know we emailed back and forth a little bit before, but I'll ask here some of the questions I asked you there (and comment) because, as you said, others may be curious too:
A little context for those who are curious: I'm a track guy, who happens to drive his car as a daily (13K miles and multiple track days already in my 2022 GT3 Touring). And a lot of window down driving here in SoCal. So drive feel/engagement/fast turns is #1, but I love listening to music when I drive. I fully acknowledge that a GT3 is not the place to aim for audiophile sound. Especially listening to Sirius and Apple Music as I do. BUT I disagree with those who say you can't hear - and enjoy - a better sounding audio system. And, while sacrilege for some, I thought the GT3 was too loud inside going 85 down the freeway (particularly the drone), so I already had full sound deadening installed throughout the car. And thus I have a more music friendly environment (and one that highlights the Bose's shortcomings more readily).
I'm in! I'm going with just the tweeters for my GT3 to start, so Stage One. I will send you an email. I'll likely upgrade to Stage 2 or 3 at some point, but can't decide right now which way on that front and would like to hear the system with just the tweeters first anyway. I know we emailed back and forth a little bit before, but I'll ask here some of the questions I asked you there (and comment) because, as you said, others may be curious too:
- I'm curious what kind of sound difference there is between the Dynaudio and Morel (specifically for the dash tweeters)? I did your tweeter upgrade on two 991's with Bose before. What a difference that made. It was astonishing to me how big an improvement just two dash tweeters made to the overall sound quality. As much as your workmanship, packaging, and help is great, I'm sure you'll be the first to concede that a large part of the sound improvement is the driver itself. How are the Morels different/better, because I loved those Dynaudios.
- No giant surprise that the Bose system seems to start breaking up and distorting, or at least starts to sound pretty muddled, at higher volumes. I'll call it volume at 33 or so and above, at least on my car. It's seems to happen at too low a volume. What's causing this? Normally I'd blame this on a crappy and/or under powered amp, but - as much as I'm sure the amp is not great, it doesn't sound like that's what it is to me. What's interesting is with the stock Bose in the 991 I don't recall this happening. You seemed to already answer my question about what I'll call impedance mismatch concerns. Sounds like you think the stock Bose tweeters are not only crap : ) but also set up too bright/loud. So you've effectively turned down the new tweeters (less efficient). But would you say that higher volume muddled sound I hear is more the tweeter or the mid in the door? I suspect tweeter and you said tinny and harsh, so would you say the new tweeter (mostly) solves this? This is important Nick. With the windows down, and the GT3 engine roaring I still want to hear my music!
- What are your recommended settings for the Bose System? First stock (until the tweeters get here), and then with the new Morel tweeters? I find I like the sound best with all the Bose sound settings off (Linear not checked either), and with just +1 on Base.
A little context for those who are curious: I'm a track guy, who happens to drive his car as a daily (13K miles and multiple track days already in my 2022 GT3 Touring). And a lot of window down driving here in SoCal. So drive feel/engagement/fast turns is #1, but I love listening to music when I drive. I fully acknowledge that a GT3 is not the place to aim for audiophile sound. Especially listening to Sirius and Apple Music as I do. BUT I disagree with those who say you can't hear - and enjoy - a better sounding audio system. And, while sacrilege for some, I thought the GT3 was too loud inside going 85 down the freeway (particularly the drone), so I already had full sound deadening installed throughout the car. And thus I have a more music friendly environment (and one that highlights the Bose's shortcomings more readily).
I do want to be clear with the 992 specifically —The tweeters will not make AS MUCH of a difference in the 992 as they did in the 991 platform. The new Bose system is just worse in more ways. What you hear in the top end of the volume is a combination of the midrange breaking up and the amplifier running out of steam. The BOSE midrange in the 992 are much lower quality than they were in the 991. They also mount to the back of the door panel vs having their own enclosure on the door itself. The result is a lot of break up above 2kHz. With the DSP in the Stage Two, we're able to use different crossover filters and EQ to correct the majority of those shortcomings. This is likely a lot of the distortion you hear. You could replace just the speaker, but the response is still going to peak due to it's location. This is why we upgrade the amp before those speakers.
Listening at higher volumes without distortion requires adequate power and speakers that can handle that power. I don't think you're going to get what you want from just the Stage One. For what you're looking for, the Stage Two should be your best value.
It's not available as part of the group buy, but PM me and I can get you set up with a kit.
Very excited, I’ve been looking forward to this post!!! I have a couple of questions as well & some have been asked by other members:
1) Will you ship to Canada?
2) Your thoughts on Dynaudio vs Morel? I always thought Dynaudio was top of the line for car audio, but have they been passed by Morel now or was it a cost factor to go with them?
3) I have a GT3 and am concerned about the added weight of sound deadening. I know it won’t sound as good, but would you sell a Stage 2 or Stage 3 kit without the SoundShield?
4) If I go with a Stage 2 now, will you have an option to purchase the Stage 3 drivers in the future and would the DSP unit need to be retuned for the different drivers?
Thanks in advance for your answers.
1) Will you ship to Canada?
2) Your thoughts on Dynaudio vs Morel? I always thought Dynaudio was top of the line for car audio, but have they been passed by Morel now or was it a cost factor to go with them?
3) I have a GT3 and am concerned about the added weight of sound deadening. I know it won’t sound as good, but would you sell a Stage 2 or Stage 3 kit without the SoundShield?
4) If I go with a Stage 2 now, will you have an option to purchase the Stage 3 drivers in the future and would the DSP unit need to be retuned for the different drivers?
Thanks in advance for your answers.
1.) No problem shipping to Canada.
2.) As far as who is better than another, there's no objectionable metric to gauge that. Morel and Dyanudio have both been at the pinnacle of car audio for many many years. We could also include Focal, Audison, Scanspeak, Hybrid and Brax into that mix. They are all at the top of the industry and have a lot of great offerings.
3.) DO NOT SKIP THE SOUND DEADENING!!!! I can't stress this enough as it's a critical component in the final sound. Not installing that would cause more vibrations in the door and rob you of the sweet bass improvements. Trust me, you're not going to notice the extra 3lb per door on track day. What you will notice is how sloppy your bass sounds in your favorite music.
4.) Yes, it's a linear upgrade and the Stage Three speakers will be available separately down the road.
stage 3. The Bose in the 992 to me is not as good as it was in the 991. I don’t like it at all.
Love the fact that it is plug and play. At this point the less hands touching the car the better. So it will be a nice weekend project. Not really concerned about the extra weight. Seems like it’s just the door cards and door. Anything that reduces potential rattles I’m ok with.
Love the fact that it is plug and play. At this point the less hands touching the car the better. So it will be a nice weekend project. Not really concerned about the extra weight. Seems like it’s just the door cards and door. Anything that reduces potential rattles I’m ok with.
The added weight is insignificant. It will not make a difference on track days, other than your happiness on the drive to and from!
#18
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Nick, Thanks for the quick and thorough reply to my questions. You have my email to start the order process.
To the question about sound deadening: Do it. At least the doors. I have a 992 gt3. One of the many reasons I like this car is its weight. This car has less than most of the alternatives. And I’m a track guy. Advanced group. Fast lap times. Especially when you’re pushing cars hard around turns you feel added weight. No hiding it. Soooo, I generally don’t like any idea that involves more weight. BUT, I bet we’re talking way less than 20 pounds to do the doors. Literally insignificant. I was told for my car about 40 pounds, and I did the whole car (back and floor and doors). I love the sound of this engine. I drive all the time with the windows down sport exhaust on when I want to hear that glorious wail, but I also daily drive mine and it was just too loud for me inside going down the freeway at 85 windows up for long drives, and the drone kinda sucked. So for me the ~ 1% weight penalty was easily worth it. And of course now music sounds better coming from the doors (no rattles or crappy resonance) and generally inside the car. My $0.02.
To the question about sound deadening: Do it. At least the doors. I have a 992 gt3. One of the many reasons I like this car is its weight. This car has less than most of the alternatives. And I’m a track guy. Advanced group. Fast lap times. Especially when you’re pushing cars hard around turns you feel added weight. No hiding it. Soooo, I generally don’t like any idea that involves more weight. BUT, I bet we’re talking way less than 20 pounds to do the doors. Literally insignificant. I was told for my car about 40 pounds, and I did the whole car (back and floor and doors). I love the sound of this engine. I drive all the time with the windows down sport exhaust on when I want to hear that glorious wail, but I also daily drive mine and it was just too loud for me inside going down the freeway at 85 windows up for long drives, and the drone kinda sucked. So for me the ~ 1% weight penalty was easily worth it. And of course now music sounds better coming from the doors (no rattles or crappy resonance) and generally inside the car. My $0.02.
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12v Nick (11-06-2022)
#19
Nick, for a GT3 where ambient cabin noise is an issue, would the perceived delta between stage two and stage three become smaller? Although I’m an audiophile, my primary goal with the upgrade is to maintain clarity at higher volumes to overcome cabin noise.
#20
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The Stage Two is probably the best "value" for a GT or Cab since the additional clarity and resolution won't be as easily appreciated with the ambient noise levels. That said, playing at high volumes makes the midrange response more critical, and having a quality version would give you a better experience when you're cranked to 11, even with the compromised environment. The better woofers would just be a bonus at that point, though you would still benefit there, too.
#21
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Thanks for your fast response to my questions Nick! Appreciate it. Please put me down for a Stage 2 kit. I’ll fire you an email as well tomorrow to get the ball rolling.
I’ll most likely end up upgrading to the Stage 3 or 3+ down the line, but this is probably a good baseline starting point.
A couple last follow up questions:
What brand of DSP/Amplifier are you using in the kit?
How easy is it to remove the Sound Shield if I want to get rid of it later? Does it stick permanently/make a mess, or can it be peeled off quite easily & cleanly?
Is it possible to request a different brand of sound deadening material?
I’ll most likely end up upgrading to the Stage 3 or 3+ down the line, but this is probably a good baseline starting point.
A couple last follow up questions:
What brand of DSP/Amplifier are you using in the kit?
How easy is it to remove the Sound Shield if I want to get rid of it later? Does it stick permanently/make a mess, or can it be peeled off quite easily & cleanly?
Is it possible to request a different brand of sound deadening material?
#22
I’m leaning heavily towards stage 2. I‘m looking for more bass and to get rid of rattles in the door and I know how much of an impact adding a good, clean amp and DSP can add to even stock speakers and how much better woofers sound with the door properly sealed w/ sound dampening. The price is also fits my budget… cheaper than burmester upgrade while sounding cleaner and louder… exactly what I’m looking for.
#23
The Stage Two is probably the best "value" for a GT or Cab since the additional clarity and resolution won't be as easily appreciated with the ambient noise levels. That said, playing at high volumes makes the midrange response more critical, and having a quality version would give you a better experience when you're cranked to 11, even with the compromised environment. The better woofers would just be a bonus at that point, though you would still benefit there, too.
Last edited by Dr. G; 11-07-2022 at 03:58 AM.
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Diablo Dude (11-08-2022)
#24
Burning Brakes
Nick, is there ext control of the DSP functions? Not that I want to endlessly tweak, but it would be nice to move the soundstage for when there is a passenger.
#25
stage 3. The Bose in the 992 to me is not as good as it was in the 991. I don’t like it at all.
Love the fact that it is plug and play. At this point the less hands touching the car the better. So it will be a nice weekend project. Not really concerned about the extra weight. Seems like it’s just the door cards and door. Anything that reduces potential rattles I’m ok with.
Love the fact that it is plug and play. At this point the less hands touching the car the better. So it will be a nice weekend project. Not really concerned about the extra weight. Seems like it’s just the door cards and door. Anything that reduces potential rattles I’m ok with.
I’m leaning heavily towards stage 2. I‘m looking for more bass and to get rid of rattles in the door and I know how much of an impact adding a good, clean amp and DSP can add to even stock speakers and how much better woofers sound with the door properly sealed w/ sound dampening. The price is also fits my budget… cheaper than burmester upgrade while sounding cleaner and louder… exactly what I’m looking for.
#26
3.) DO NOT SKIP THE SOUND DEADENING!!!! I can't stress this enough as it's a critical component in the final sound. Not installing that would cause more vibrations in the door and rob you of the sweet bass improvements. Trust me, you're not going to notice the extra 3lb per door on track day. What you will notice is how sloppy your bass sounds in your favorite music.
Also, is the install fairly straightforward plug and play? If there are enough people in AZ and you guys can make a trip out here I'd pay for you to install, but otherwise, just curious how easy it would be to DIY install the stage 2 kit in particular. Thanks again.
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Go Bruins (11-07-2022)
#27
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Thanks for your fast response to my questions Nick! Appreciate it. Please put me down for a Stage 2 kit. I’ll fire you an email as well tomorrow to get the ball rolling.
I’ll most likely end up upgrading to the Stage 3 or 3+ down the line, but this is probably a good baseline starting point.
A couple last follow up questions:
What brand of DSP/Amplifier are you using in the kit?
How easy is it to remove the Sound Shield if I want to get rid of it later? Does it stick permanently/make a mess, or can it be peeled off quite easily & cleanly?
Is it possible to request a different brand of sound deadening material?
I’ll most likely end up upgrading to the Stage 3 or 3+ down the line, but this is probably a good baseline starting point.
A couple last follow up questions:
What brand of DSP/Amplifier are you using in the kit?
How easy is it to remove the Sound Shield if I want to get rid of it later? Does it stick permanently/make a mess, or can it be peeled off quite easily & cleanly?
Is it possible to request a different brand of sound deadening material?
The Sound Damping is there to stay. You CAN remove it but it's a PITA. Honestly, there's no need to do so. The damping won't hinder any future serviceability of the door/window components and having it is not going to affect resale in any negative way.
Curious why you'd want a different sound damping brand — we've found this combo to be more then adequate for this application. You could obviously go your own route and do more extensive damping if you wanted.
I’m leaning heavily towards stage 2. I‘m looking for more bass and to get rid of rattles in the door and I know how much of an impact adding a good, clean amp and DSP can add to even stock speakers and how much better woofers sound with the door properly sealed w/ sound dampening. The price is also fits my budget… cheaper than burmester upgrade while sounding cleaner and louder… exactly what I’m looking for.
Question on the sound damping... In your much more elaborate install for the Oslo blue 992, it appears you use more sound damping material in the doors. Is there a significant benefit with going with the additional sound damping beyond the pre-cut Soundshield material you include in these kits? Personally, I value increased bass and less rattles and wouldn't mind adding 10 lbs of sound damping if it would help.
Also, is the install fairly straightforward plug and play? If there are enough people in AZ and you guys can make a trip out here I'd pay for you to install, but otherwise, just curious how easy it would be to DIY install the stage 2 kit in particular. Thanks again.
Also, is the install fairly straightforward plug and play? If there are enough people in AZ and you guys can make a trip out here I'd pay for you to install, but otherwise, just curious how easy it would be to DIY install the stage 2 kit in particular. Thanks again.
The install is fairly simple DIY. If you're able-bodies with basic tools and some mechanical ability, it will be a breeze. I will do my best to have a true install guide up in the next couple of weeks for reference. I'm also more than happy to offer local install for 3 or more vehicles(travel and labor costs apply).
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#28
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I've updated the queue in my original post with a list of who is in so far. I have deposits from most of you, but if not, please send me your email so I can get you taken care of.
I also have a lot of emails and PMs coming in so it's taking a lot of time but I should be able to respond to everyone within 24 hours.
Thanks!
Nick
I also have a lot of emails and PMs coming in so it's taking a lot of time but I should be able to respond to everyone within 24 hours.
Thanks!
Nick
#29
Nick,
I'm going to ask a few questions about the upcoming subwoofer here for the benefit of anyone else interested:
1. In the GT3 with LWBs, will the passenger seat need to come out to install it?
2. Will the sub have its own volume control? I know sometimes bass can get boomy rather than fast, accurate and seamless. I'm going to assume you're not going for loose bass, but still thought I'd ask.
I'm going to ask a few questions about the upcoming subwoofer here for the benefit of anyone else interested:
1. In the GT3 with LWBs, will the passenger seat need to come out to install it?
2. Will the sub have its own volume control? I know sometimes bass can get boomy rather than fast, accurate and seamless. I'm going to assume you're not going for loose bass, but still thought I'd ask.
#30
Rennlist Member
I've updated the queue in my original post with a list of who is in so far. I have deposits from most of you, but if not, please send me your email so I can get you taken care of.
I also have a lot of emails and PMs coming in so it's taking a lot of time but I should be able to respond to everyone within 24 hours.
Thanks!
Nick
I also have a lot of emails and PMs coming in so it's taking a lot of time but I should be able to respond to everyone within 24 hours.
Thanks!
Nick
Thanks, Nick!
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12v Nick (11-08-2022)