diver110

I am getting my 2009 Cayenne serviced at the dealer and mentioned that I had an interest in the Taycan (albeit not with its current range). I was getting a loaner, and the service guy said "so you are interested in the Taycan?" Like an idiot, I did not just say yes, but instead said, "yes, but not day after tomorrow." Not the first time, my honesty cost me. Service guy said, okay, will put you in a Macan. Groan.

kort677

I am curious about you comment regarding range, what do you believe the range is? may I suggest that you do a google search on the topic and you would find many reports about far exceeding the reported EPA range numbers or you could search youtube for dozens of videos showing the same.

diver110

I was not aware of that. But I guess I would be nervous about relying on anecdotal stories.

kort677

anecdotal? videos of guys getting 250+ miles? ok

manitou202

The Taycan's range is only surpassed by the Model 3 LR and the Model S LR. There have been numerous Independent testing verifying the Taycan dramatically exceeds it's EPA rated range. This is no longer just anecdotal evidence.

One example:
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/ele...s-edmunds.html

daveo4porsche

Drove 223 miles one way this week in 2020 Taycan Turbo - Santa Cruz to Willows, CA + a short lunch detour next to free way (In/Out FTW)

Left Le Selva Beach, ca home 100% SOC
Arrived Willow, Ca 16% SOC

Had a miraculous EA experience @ Willows Wall Mart 350 kW station
charging America app - free charging session
plug in @ 16% SOC - charge rate jumps to 249 kW
go inside for some light shopping
come out 23 minutes later 84% SOC

my Teslas have never ever on any day charged that fast - in my 8 years of supercharging experience (2013 Model S P85 to today w/2017 Model X P100D)

drive was done in range mode on the Taycan
trip was done via: Hwy 1 North, 17 north, 880 North, 680 North, 80 East, 505 North, I-5 North - speed limits or +5 mph over the entire trip - 3 to 7 “burst mode” let’s get around this slow car - touching speeds of 100 mph+ (I love me a good EV) - back to normal speeds.
temperatures were mild 60’s/low 70’s - traffic was flowing to slight slight slight congestion
ACC + LKA most of the way
AC set to 68F

221 miles / 84% SOC used = 265 miles estimated SOC 0% range - this is not the first time 260-270 miles range on my Taycan is the number I’ve achieved during a trip
I don’t remember the wh/mile number, but I did check it- and it was better than 333 wh/mile - I remember this because 333 wh/mile is exactly 3 miles per kWh efficiency - I noted from onboard computer I was doing better than 333 wh/mile, after that I didn’t care - it was not below 300 wh/mile, and it better than 333 wh/mile…

the Taycan Turbo that I have 9000 miles on is a SOLID 250 mile per full charge EV - 270-290 if you really really baby it - 210 miles if you drive it like you stole it.

the EPA number is just wrong - like the EPA number for Tesla is just wrong, but in a different way.

Taycan return trip was identical - left Thurderhill raceway with 100% SOC (thank you NEMA 14-50 RV plugs) - drove 243 miles (due to detour in Fremont) - arrive home at 11% SOC - 243 / 89% SOC = 273 miles estimated 0% SOC range.

if you’re not getting at least 240 miles range in a Taycan you’re doing it wrong - or simply not trying.

now about Tesla and EPA ratings…

I’ve owned 5 Teslas (never more than 2 at once), Model S P85, Model S P85D, Model X P90D, Model X P100D, Model 3 Performance - you never get the EPA Range - drove once from Button willow raceway to home in San jose - left BW 100% SOC - distance to San Jose home 190 miles or less - EPA range rating for my ‘18 Model 3 Performance 248 miles - arrived in San Jose @ 3% SOC - this was after some very very careful driving in mild conditions - at or below speed limits

EPA range says 248 miles
Elon’s onboard trip computer estimated 6% SOC at destination - arrived with 3% SOC
190 miles / 97% SOC = 195 miles total range

EVEN Tesla’s OWN navigation software “KNOWS” you will not achieve EPA numbers - I know this because I’ve always found the Tesla nav software battery SOC % estimate to be useful and accurate, but it has never once ever in it’s entire life matched the EPA rating when estimating a segment for navigation.

kort677

having owned a model 3LR P and a Taycan 4s, I have never achieved those sort of high range numbers in normal daily driving or on extended road trips.

manitou202

Agreed. Those numbers are under ideal conditions. But the point of their test is to show which vehicles at highway speeds (typical road trip) fall short or exceed their EPA number. It at least provides a good assessment directionally for comparing different EV's.

When the EPA numbers were announced for the Taycan I cancelled my order. My experience with Tesla was that what ever the EPA rating was, I would be lucky to achieve 75% of that range on a road trip (more like 60% in the case of our Model X). So with the Taycan getting 204 miles I assumed that 150 miles would be the best range under normal circumstances. However this is completely wrong. On a road trip the Taycan has a 200-275 mile range versus a Tesla LR has similar performance. So the difference is minimal in the real world, not the large gap implied by the EPA rating.

As an example, I wouldn't sweat trying to drive 250 miles in my Turbo S in normal weather conditions. This is significantly greater than the 192 mile EPA rating. However my 2018 Tesla Model X 100D (22" wheels) with a 295 mile rating would have struggled to hit 200 miles in the same conditions.

After seeing some of the independent tests I purchase a Taycan and my real world experience directly relates. Ultimately a new standardized test (that can't be gamed) needs to be developed to be able to compare EV's effectively. These independent tests are the best we have at the moment.

Needsdecaf

Dave's experience consistent with mine. In order to meet rates range on my Model 3 Performance (290 miles) you need to average around 255-250 Wh/mile, depending on how much of the pack Tesla is allowing you to use. The only way to get that kind of consumption is 40-50 MPH in-town driving. At a steady 75 MPH in the highway, in favorable weather conditions, consumption is in the 290-300 Wh/mile range. This is very consistent over 25k miles in this car, and slightly (but not much) worse than my Long Range which was rated at 310 miles (and which I out 35k miles on).

Tesla knows how to game the EPA test. Entirely legal but literally, YMMV. Except it's not "may" it's "will".

My personal theory is that the Tesla drivetrain is INSANELY efficient and mechanical losses are very, very low. If you put the car in Neutral, it's astonishing how far it will coast. Really, I've never seen anything like it. But aero is aero and even though the CD is low, drag increases with the square of speed. So aero drag will take its toll. I just took a long road trip and hit a 15-20 MPH headwind. Consumption climbed to nearly 350 WH/mile up from 300. That's huge. And shows you how much of the consumption is coming from aero drag.

I believe the Taycan has more mechanical drag, from its wider tires and the losses in the gearbox. So it has a higher overall consumption but it's percentage of consumption from aero is less. This coupled with the two speed gearbox means the delta between city and highway consumption isn't nearly as large.

diver110

Well, I confess, the stories are a little more than anecdotal. I was imagining random owners were telling their stories. In fact, though, there has been some seemingly rigorous testing done and the Taycan does seem to outperform its EPA numbers on road trips and even did better than a Tesla Y in one test. https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tes...ange-test.html. I don't have a good understanding of EPA versus reality. I guess the other issue is how many fast charging stations are around. I live in a condo part of the year without a charging option. There is one at work, but there are only two spaces and they are usually occupied. Still, worth exploring a bit more.

Whoopsy

EPA ratings for EVs are the anecdotal stuff.

Not a single Tesla has ever achieved or get close it's EPA range, but pretty much every other EVs on the market can get close if not exceed the rating, Taycans simply blow by it like it's not there.

Porsche's EPA rating is like the MINIMUM range you can get out of the car no matter the condition. The Tesla rating is the moon shot one, one where all the planets have to aligned and the moon too and you have to wake up on the left side of the bed but get off the right side and you need to put your left sock on first and have breakfast before putting the right sock.


But honestly, if you live in a condo without charging option, get a Tesla. Their supercharger network is much denser than everything else. Which means you don't need to charge when you at home. Drive it like a normal car, when it gets low find a charger and charge it like you go fill up when your gas tank is low.

diver110

I live in north Baltimore country, a fairly upscale area. Almost zip charging stations, go figure. There is a Porsche dealership near me. I wonder if it lets people charge at the dealership given the lack of other opportunities.

kort677

visit www.plugshare.com, set it to show only ccs locations for an idea of how many charging locations are near to you. life with an EV without a dedicated place to charge is possible but it is challenging. one of the good things about an EV is that with a dedicated place to charge, like at home, you go to sleep and wake up to a car ready for the day, and you don't need to waste time using public chargers.

kort677

if you bought your car from him he might let you charge there but if not unless he is a super nice guy I wouldn't count on being a regular at his charger

diver110

That would be my supposition.