daveo4porsche

I've posted this on other sites - it's been well received (it is the most viewed thread on the Chevy Bolt forum in charging subform by a wide margin) - warning long read - and some details will have to be left out due to lack of specific knowledge about the Taycan (namely it's maximum L2 charge rate)

Updated and hacked given the facts around the Taycan - 9/28/2019
Legend
Hello all,

I've been driving EV's for about 7 years (Ford Focus EV, Tesla Model S, Tesla Model X, Bolt and Leaf). Over that time I've developed my opinions about charging and I'm going to share them here for all to see and learn - LOL

1st off kudos to Porsche on this car - but after coming from Tesla I found the charging information/situation with Porsche to be lacking.

The most affordable mobile charger in my opinion is a Gen-2 Tesla Universal Mobile Charger (UMC - $320). Carry one of these babies in your EV and you can charge _ANYWHERE_ - it’s a very reasonable 32 amp charger for it’s price in that you can use virtually any AC plug you run into. (It’s unclear what mobile EVSE/charger Porsche will include if any with the car - this advice will be subject to actual what’s included with the car - if Porsche includes a flexible mobile charger with the car with 32 or 40 amp charge rate then this advice can be safely ignored).

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product...or-bundle.html


If you chose to go with the Tesla UMC you MUST purchase a JDapter ($239) or TeslaTap ($239)

https://shop.quickchargepower.com/JD...r-JDPTRSTB.htm
http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?r...&product_id=50

This adapter converts the Tesla UMC connector to a standard J-1772 EV charging connector - it allows _ANY_ J-1772 EV to charge from a Tesla L2 charger (NOT superchargers). For those of you that don’t know Tesla supports what they call a Tesla Destination charging network (chargers installed with Tesla’s assistance at various locations all over North America - these chargers vary in Amperage from 20-80 AMP’s and are typically free if you are a customer of the associated business).

Even if you do not plan to use a Tesla charger for your mobile or home charging situation - this adapter is highly recommended by me for EV road warriors as it will "force multiply" the number of L2 chargers you will have access to while traveling. With this adapter in the car you can charge at any public J-1772 charger AND any Tesla Destination chargers you happen to encounter! So more choice for L2 charging - win win!

For existing owners of Teslas (I know you're out there) that have existing Tesla charger at home this Adapter will let you Taycan charge from your existing Tesla UMC and/or Wall charger - so you do not need to buy a new charger for the Taycan.

The link below is an interactive map of all the Tesla L2 Destination chargers - if you have the $239 adapter you can use these charging locations (with permission) in addition to normal J-1772 chargers - so you great expand your potential charging solutions if you have this adapter.

https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds...arger&name=usa

You do not need a “membership/account” with Tesla for use of these chargers, usage is at the discretion of the associated business owners - NOT Tesla. Many of these business have both J-1772 and Tesla chargers on site, and carrying this adapter simply offers you the choice of using a Tesla charger if all the J-1772 chargers are occupied - most business owners won’t care. In some rare cases some businesses have ONLY Tesla chargers and this adapter would let you charge your EV should you encounter this situation. Other forums have had extensive discussion on this topic and I believe it is well established that this adapter is a MUST have for any serous EV road warrior, even _IF_ you do not plan to use a Gen-2 Tesla UMC for your home charging solution.

Home charging this topic has been discussed ad nausea on the Tesla/EV forums it comes down to these basic choices.

1. some people don't feel they need one and opt for public/work based chargers - I applaud these people's sprit and they honestly believe this works for them. I'm too much of a control freak to go this route and want to know I can charge my car at a reasonable rate on my own terms.
2. Install a NEMA 14-50 plug in their garage - and this gives you many options as you can buy many many chargers and install them by simply plugging them in.
3. some people have two (2) Tesla UMC's with them - one in car , and one that lives in the garage plugged into the NEMA 14-50 plug or what ever plug they decide to install.
4. some people have one (1) UMC - and their's lives in their garage and they only take it out of the garage when "traveling"
5. Many people opt for the Tesla Wall connector - see link below- the reason for this is safety (hard wired) and configurability - it can be configured to provide 16-80 amps with appropriate circuitry - making it one of the most flexible EV chargers on the market for a fair price ($500) - of course you'll need a JDapter/TeslaTap to use it.
6. My personal recommendation for home charging is to go with either: Tesla Wall connector + Adatper, Clipper creek, JuiceBox, or ChargePoint. The clipper creek chargers are bullet proof and have a wide wide range of charging options (12 amp to 100 amp J-1772 chargers)

Porsche Home Charging Dock - which seems to be a super nice wall mounted "dock" to mount the Porsche mobile charger in - this is a nice bit of "kit" that will polish your home charging install but still let you "undock" the charger and take it with you. As with everything Porsche charges too much for this item, but I foresee zero quality issues with it.Tesla Wall Connector - https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product...connector.html
Gen-2 Tesla UMC - https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product...or-bundle.html
ClipperCreek - https://store.clippercreek.com/hcs-5...category_id=69

Advice on the install:

To be clear all you need to charge the Taycan at home is a NEMA 14-50 plug - this is 240 volt 50 amp circuit (allowing a 40 am charge rate matching the maximum 9.6 kW L2 charge rate supported by the Taycan). Any more planing or equipment would simply be in anticipation of your future status as a multi-ev household, but offer no benefit for your immediate situation w/Taycan - read on if your interested spending slightly more $$ but making your life slightly easier for your future multi-ev household…
The Tesla Wall Charger ($500) has two advantages that push it over the top IMHO…

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product...connector.html
it's configurable - you can set the feed breaker's AMP setting, and the charger will tell the car the max AMP's it can feed, that means you can buy one wall charger, and over time adjust it to what ever AMP's you are feeding it making it the most cost effective chargers out there for the widest range of possible charging rates… it can load-share a single circuit breaker - splitting the load to charge up to 4 EV's at once (1 master and up to 3 slaves configured by dip-switches in the charger) - and 2-4 chargers will SHARE a single circuit breaker and adjust the AMP load based on demand from the car's being charged (this is part of the J-1772 standard). So you can install one circuit, one wall charger, and in the future "add" another Wall charger and charge 2, 3, or 4 electric cars off one (1) electrical circuit - for the future multi-EV household I consider this a killer feature and is why I give the nod to the Tesla Wall Connector for $500. So for me the ideal charging scenario for an EV Owner is:

1. Gen-2 Tesla UMC in the trunk with many adapters for all plugs - https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product...-adapters.html
2. Tesla Wall connector in the garage configured to match the maximum AMP's my home electrical panel can handle (plus Adapter)
3. JDapter/TeslaTap in the car for charging using Tesla destination chargers while out and about on trips
4. Some extension cords to help reach plugs while traveling if necessary

I also recommend the following items from amazon for the road warrior charging master:

1. high quality 20 amp extension cord - https://smile.amazon.com/AC-Connecto...nsion+cordnema
2. short adapter that let you plug the 20 amp extension cord into a normal 15 amp plug - https://smile.amazon.com/AC-Connecto...o+5-20+adapter
3. NEMA 14-50 extension cord - heavy and expensive, but a life saver sometimes when you just can't reach that juicy, ever so fast, 40 amp 240 volt plug that is just out of reach… https://smile.amazon.com/Camco-Exten...extension+cord

congrats everyone on your EV! I love mine and I know you'll love yours - these recommendation are investments in my opinion and modified Tesla's chargers will serve you well for _ANY_ EV you currently own or likely will own in the future.

Terminology

J-1772 - http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=J-1772
NEMA 14-50 - http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=NEMA+14-50
Electric AMPS http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=Electrical+AMPS
Volts - http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=Electrical+Volts

I'm happy to answer questions.

daveo4porsche

I wish to restate since we do not yet know what charger if any Porsche will include with the Taycan some of the above advice may be ignored - but at the moment Tesla offers the best, most cost effective _MOBILE_ EV (J-1772) EVSE charger - it's small, compact, rugged/weather-proof, flexible affordable, and really top notch in the MOBILE EVSE portable charger market - it's maximum charge rate of 32 amps is really top flight and a wonderful accessory for the EV road warrior…

_IF_ Porsche includes a 32/40 amp EVSE with the car and plug adapters for L1 plugs (house hold outlets) and NEMA 14-50 (RV hook ups) the Tesla Charger advise can be safely ignored…

but I'll stand by my advice to have a J-Adapter since it effectively mulitplies the number of L2 chargers you have access to while traveling (hotels, shopping centers, and what not have a lot of Tesla L2 chargers installed nationwide, many high amp 30 amps or more for really quite nice charger rates). With the J-Adapter you can charge at both normal Public chargers (J-1772) and Tesla L2 chargers (J-1772 but a different plug shape)

here is a link to the Tesla Gen2 Universal Mobile Charger (UMC) that comes with each Tesla Model 3 sold - it's hard to beat for $300 - and comes with a house hold plug adapter, and NEMA 14-50 plug adapter (50 amps for a 40/32 amp maximum charge rate)

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product...or-bundle.html

the link below here is a list of the Tesla UMC Gen2 adapters ($35) each - you can buy plug adapter for virtually any plug type you are likely to encounter in North America - and when the Adatper is plugged into the EVSE the correct amp rate is automatically selected based on plug type so the EV (Taycan) won't overload the circuit breaker that is typically associated with that type of plug - no muss no fuss.

https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product...-adapters.html

with a portable charger, and a set of adapter you don't need an "EV charger" - you can charge anywhere you can find/access an electrical plug - it makes road tripping with an EV much easier if you know there is power where you are going.

the J-Adapter DOES NOT allow you to use the Tesla Supercharger Network! But Porsche will have 800 volt 350,000 watt fast chargers so those are better anyways, but hte L2 chargers are great for overnight charging at hotels, malls, businesses.

Guards Red Car

whiz944

Nah. Your Juicebox will likely be fine. If you hard wire it, have the electrician install it with a 40 amp breaker. But run #6 wire instead of #8. That way you could upgrade to a 50- or even 60-amp circuit later without having to pull new wires. Marginal cost is almost nothing. A 50 amp circuit will allow 40 amp charging, and a 60 amp circuit will allow 48 amp charging. If your Juicebox has a pigtail with a plug on it (likely a 14-50 or maybe a 6-50), have the electrician install it on a 50 amp circuit. Again use #6 wire.

whiz944

We do need to know more specifics about the North American Taycan - both at L1 and L2. A few thoughts:

1.) It is worth noting that the 120v on-board charging on most EVs is limited to 12 amps regardless of what the EVSE says is safe. So not all cars can take full advantage of a 5-20. They'll be stuck at 12 amps no matter what. This is one of those "lowest common denominator" lawyer things where they are afraid of the marginal 120v electrical components in a lot of homes. (GM even sets 8 amps as the default. You have to explicitly choose 12.) Tesla, of course, allows higher current charging at 120v - with the proper connections. They can even go to 24 amps at 120v - useful with a TT-30 (Travel Trailer 120v 30 amp) found at a lot of camp grounds.

Anecodotally, when my wife and I took our first overnight road trip in my Model 3, the parking lot at the inn where we stayed had a 120v 20 amp receptacle exactly where we parked. Unfortunately I only had the 5-15 adapter for my UMC. If I had the 5-20 adapter, I could have gotten a few more miles/hour of overnight charging. I've since purchased the 5-20 adapter ($35) and keep it in my charging kit. But even charging over a couple of nights at 120v/12 amps, plus an hour or two of destination charging at a winery we visited, we avoided the need to visit a Supercharger on our return trip.

2.) Extension cords:

Safest is to purchase a J1772 extension cord. The JLong (https://shop.quickchargepower.com/JL...able-JL40A.htm) and ICE Breaker (https://www.bsaelectronics.com/produ...xtension-cable) are two. They are a bit pricey. But again it is the safest approach.

However I built a couple of my own. Like Dave, one is a "20 amp" setup for up to 16 amp charging. It is based around 50' of 12 ga SJOOW cable and commercial quality 240v 20 amp (NEMA 6-20) plug and receptacle. I then use the Tesla UMC with a 6-20 adapter plugged in on one end, and a couple of homemade adapters on the other. When not in use, it all winds up and fits in a nice plastic storage bin.

I also built a "30 amp" setup for charging at 24 amps. On this I used 10 ga SJOOW cable, a NEMA 6-30 plug on one end (since I have 6-30 receptacle in my garage) and a TT-30 receptacle on the other end. I bought a third party TT-30 UMC adapter (https://www.evseadapters.com/product...el-s-x-3-gen-2) to plug into the TT-30 receptacle. Even though TT-30 is generally 120v, the setup works fine at 240v. The SJOOW cable is rated at 300 volts, and there is plenty of spacing in the connectors for that voltage as well. Everything is cool to the touch after several hours of charging. If I were to do it over again, I'd probably just buy a commercially made TT-30 extension cord since they are mass produced, cost less than my homemade one, and more waterproof. Then I'd just need a short 6-30P to TT-30R adapter.

The thing I have against 14-series extension cords is that they have a 4th wire, for neutral, which is unused for EV charging. Thus there is extra cost, weight, and bulkiness compared to one based on 6-series. Wish Tesla offered a TT-30 (or 6-30 or even L6-30) adapter for the UMC, but they don't. So it is a good thing the evseadapters folks stepped in with a 3rd party solution.

daveo4porsche

it might be wise to wait for Porsche for a home charging solution - if they do something really awesome then it was worth the wait - however if they are just providing a J-1772 L2 charger at 40 amps (50 amp breaker) and then adding the Porsche mark up it won't be worth it.

I'm very excited to see what Porsche offers in this space.

daveo4porsche

I'm hearing rumors of a possible Porsche inductive charging mat - which would be way cool and worth waiting for - my only concern is charge rate - I'm not interested in 16 amp (or less charge rate)

these people make a wireless charging matt for Tesla - and it's 7.2 kW - acceptable but not ideal from a charge rate point of view - but wicked cool from a usability point of view

I don't personally have this product so I can't speak to it's effectiveness.

https://www.pluglesspower.com/shop/r...tesla-model-s/

Needsdecaf

Thanks for the thorough explanation David. I know it helped me when I bought my EV!!

Does anyone know what Audi is shipping with the ETron? Are any even on the ground yet in the US?

manitou202

My Panamera Hybrid came with a 7.2kw charger with a Nema 14-50 plug. That's sufficient to charge a Taycan overnight.

I installed two Nema 14-50 outlets with 50amp breakers so I can use multiple options. Right now we have the Panamera charger and the Tesla portable charger always plugged in. I charge the Panamera and our Leaf with the Porsche charger, and of course the Tesla uses it's own.

W8MM

Interesting! My 2018 Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid charger came with a NEMA 6-50 plug which I paired with a NEMA 6-50 socket via a 50 amp breaker.

The booklet with the charger says it only consumes 16A @ 240V, but I wanted to be compatible with a prospective ~40A @ 240V charge rate for a Taycan in the future.

daveo4porsche

in the case of Tesla's chargers the extra "neutral" in the NEMA 14-50 plug is unused, and a Tesla charger (and probably other EV charger but I don't know for a fact) only needs the two hots and the ground and the neutral is ignored, so a NEMA 6-50 and 14-50 plug is identical electrically from the perspective a Tesla UMC charger…

apparently the NEMA 14-50 is the preferred plug for RV hooks up since with the neutral you can have normal 120 volt devices pulling from just one leg of connection so a NEMA 14-50 plugs is both a 240. volt and 120 volt connection depending on how you use it...

I have NEMA 14-50 in my garage as a backup incase the dedicated wall chargers are broken or lose their minds - it's just a spare plug in case I need it. And I wired it up as a full NEMA 14-50 with all 4 wires correctly configured.

a NEMA 14-50 is a pretty good default choice and leaves you a lot of options for your future EV charging. There are many many many many EV chargers you can purchase that plug in to a NEMA 14-50 plug, and because it's a plug they are wicked easy to swap out should you change your mind.

NEMA 14-50 will yield a maximum 40 amp charge rate or 9.6 kW

a full 40 amp capable Taycan could be fully charged from empty by a NEMA 14-50 plug in 90 / 9.6 = 9.375 (let's say 10-11 hours)

whiz944

All current plug-in cars are that way. At 240v (and 208v at commercial locations), only the two hots (+ safety ground) are needed.

Yes - any time you see a reference to a "50 amp" hookup in the RV community, it is code for a 14-50. The road warrior would keep this in mind when travelling to areas where formal EV charging stations are scarce. The RV parks make for a kind of secondary charging network. With the spread of Superchargers and other high speed charging systems such as EA with CCS, it's getting less important. But one of the nice things about EVs is there are literally billions of power outlets around - if one knows where to look.

I had a 14-50 installed outside when we did our solar installation. Only took the electrician a few more minutes of time to add it to the new subpanel. That, plus the 6-30 in the garage, handle both cars.

Needsdecaf

From zero to full.

Which will never happen. Which SHOULD never happen!

I keep my M3 charged to 90%. Seems like that's the purported safe limit for overnight storage. I run it to that as I routinely return at night with 35% charge or lower (I drive a lot). If I wasn't, I'd probably normally charge to 80%.

So a typical overnight charge, will be more like 30% to 90% or 60% of total of that 90 kWh so 54 kWh. at 9.6 kW charging time, that's a little over 5.5 hours. Again, typical.

kayjh

I wonder how the high charge rate Porsche is implementing will affect battery longevity and degradation rates. You may be able to put 80% back into the battery in 15 minutes while on the road, but how many time will you be able to do that before the battery degrades? Tesla owners have already noticed this. If Porsche has developed a battery management system to make this a non-issue then they've hit the holy grail of EV driving.

daveo4porsche

L2 charging is far less stressful on batteries than DC fast charging - and given the DC Fast charging isn't supposed to be the exclusive way to charge the car battery wear is manageable if you're mostly charging overnight and don't charge to a 100% every time....

the only extreme case of Tesla battery wear that has been well documented is a Tesla Taxi company that lost 15-20% capacity in 200,000 miles because they used Supercharging exclusively....

the data I've seen shows that most Tesla owners batteries are far less than 10% - and most less than 5% after a few years…so even in that case the wear isn't that extreme.