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Petevb 08-20-2018 05:04 PM

Tesla M3D review: split decision
 
Few companies have divided opinion like Tesla. It’s the most shorted stock of 2018, and for every short there are two longs, for every detractor a passionate supporter. There’s no apparent middle ground: a war rages in the market and online, flames fanned by ideology and billions with a vested interest in swaying opinion. But at its core this war’s not about money, a man or a company: it’s about the future of the automobile. The Tesla Model 3 signals a turning point: it is in many ways the first anti- driver’s car, and thus it marks the beginning of the end cars as we know them. It’s a bridge to a driverless future, but its foundations on both sides could use shoring up.

I purchased a Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor two weeks ago for $54,500 msrp- after incentives $44,500 for most Californians, either a massive rip-off or a huge steal depending on perspective. On paper it’s a very capable sports sedan for that price; in practice it’s something else entirely. It falls short of its goal of having one foot on the solid ground of today’s motoring world and a second firmly planted in a future where cars drive themselves. Despite this it’s a very, very good car for a certain type of driver and an almost equally poor one for another.

If you’re an experienced driver looking explore a car’s limits the 3D will disappoint. It’s shockingly good up through five tenths, but beyond this it gets more and more ragged. Around six tenths the ability to control the car’s line through a corner diminishes rapidly. The stability control system (which can’t be defeated or adjusted) steps in to limit regenerative braking at the first sign of wheel slip, and that in turn means the slight rotation you learn to expect with a mid-corner lift may or may not materialize- uncertainty at apex goes from being measured in inches to feet, while understeer (eventually terminal) begins to set in. At seven tenths the car’s soft, slightly boaty suspension is becoming a significant issue in quicker transitions. The first move through a slalom tends to be quick and sure, but by the second the car’s well behind the steering wheel and you’re waiting on the weight to transfer. Pushing to eight tenths initiates a battle over the accelerator pedal that the car’s stability control invariably wins. The system is conservative and it takes ages to insure there’s no slip before feeding power back in, formerly instant throttle response becoming glacial. Wrestling the system for control is ineffective: chucking the car in to provoke rotation can lead to the computer taking the accelerator pedal away entirely, stranding you without a paddle until the car slows to a near crawl. Also around eight tenths the ABS gets inconsistent over rough pavement, leading to longer stopping distances reminiscent of the 997 GT3’s dreaded “ice mode” (though no where near as bad). Pushing to nine tenths or beyond simply magnifies the bad behavior.

It must be said that much of this is typical of consumer grade sedan behavior. Even modern BMW M cars will decompensate and get sloppy as they approach the limit, though they have a massive advantage in that they’ve got both a sport mode and the ability to disable systems. One could imagine the 3D becoming a solid six or even seven tenths proposition with an over the air update. With shocks, springs and swaybars (there is provision for a rear bar but none is fitted) it might get to eight tenths, which could be properly fun. As it is, however, it’s fun as a five tenths car and no better.

Given all the above you’d be forgiven for thinking that it’s not particularly fast against the clock, but you’d be wrong. A tight, dry autocross course that favors precision is about the last place you’ve expect a large, slightly clumsy mid-sized sedan to do well. That’s doubly true when it’s wearing low rolling resistance 400 treadwear mud and snow rated all-season Continentals, especially against a fleet of Boxsters, Carreras and Caymans, many running autocross dedicated RE-71s. Yet despite the drawbacks I was able to put the 3D into the top half of the field at a Zone 7 PCA autocross, surprising nearly everyone. Data logging showed a pitiful .7 lateral Gs peak in the same corners that faster cars were well over 1.1, yet the 39 seconds and change was very respectable when the imprecision and width didn’t have me collecting cones. On sticky summer rubber (as the Model 3 Performance will get optionally) it would easily be a second quicker, while dedicated sticky autocross tires might well be nearly another second beyond that. At that point it would have been quicker than 90% of the field; give it Hoosier A7 grip and it did feel as if it might be nipping at my stock 2018 GT3’s heels on most autocross courses- frankly ridiculous for an otherwise stock sedan that’s in no way well set up for an autocross.

This brings me to why the car is so good at five tenths or below, which is frankly where 99% of drivers spend 99% of their time. Excellent ability to put power down, even through a corner. Low polar moment (for a relatively long sedan). Low center of gravity. Good suspension articulation. Quick steering. Very, very strong power especially from ~40 through 80 mph. And of course, instant throttle response. If I look what’s useful dynamically on my daily commute the 3D checks a lot of boxes, and frankly there it’s pretty enjoyable. It’s not big smiles per mile in an Audi RS4 “it’s alive” way. It’s certainly not heart pounding in a BMW 1M hooligan way. But in a buttoned down, somewhat socially responsible but still able to make rapid progress and exploit any gap way it’s a good place to spend time. Real world I find it far more exploitable and less frustrating than an Audi S3 (all DCT and turbo lag). Would I daily one over a Porsche or older M5 if I wasn’t fueling it for “free” and zipping by stopped traffic in the carpool lane? Probably not if I’m honest, but someone needs to drive the “practical” car and it would cross my mind.

Part of what makes me enjoy it as a commuter is in fact the much-maligned interior. It’s only been a couple weeks, but I’m already largely adapted to the iPad instead of dash. Registering speed takes no longer than in my Porsche. Registering charge level is easier than checking oil temp. In fact overall situational awareness is likely higher in the TM3D in part because there’s less going on. In the GT3 I’m subconsciously tracking oil temp, fuel level, tire temp, revs, gear, speed, nose lift position, sport mode/ traction control, parking brake position, the list goes on. In the Tesla I track speed and “fuel”, that’s it. The climate control stays in auto and it simply doesn’t have much else beyond nav that I need to interact with. On that topic the nav is far better than my 150k Porsche’s- it’s easier to use, easier to see and it’s far better with traffic and route estimation. The radio’s better as well, and the streaming audio works great.

That’s not to say it’s without flaws. Being of the iPad generation I adapted quickly, but give the car to my parents and that’s not going to be the case at all. Some things are distracting and buried in menus, particularly before you’ve got it set up and learned. The clock’s and many buttons are far too small. Bottom line it feels like an interface three years ahead of its time: when self-driving and full voice control are a reality many car interiors will follow suit, but neither is fully ready today, so as of now the design is inferior. Not by as much as I’d expected however- I’m even used to opening the glove box with the touch screen.

Other flaws will take more than a software push to fix. The idea is clearly that the car does everything for you: it opens and closes your garage door, adjusts the high beams automatically, etc. And most of the time this works well, but when the cameras are covered in morning condensation the high beams no longer adjust, and there’s no manual backup I could find. Which doesn’t seem to bode well for the long delayed full self-driving mode.

On the topic of style everyone will have their own take. Personally I feel the exterior styling is weak, while the interior is a only a slight letdown for a car in the 40s; if I’d paid in the 60s I’d likely feel short-changed (though no more than a 100k Jaguar F-type R). Quality and quality control still need work- my car was delivered came with four issues that need addressing: two seals, one panel gap and the lack of a “dual motor” badge that’s apparently not yet available, while paint quality is also poor. All but the last are easily fixable, but Tesla is as behind in some basic areas as it is ahead in others.

Up through five tenths the TM3D is as close to a video game as anything I’ve driven. It’s clearly not targeted at drivers, but if your expectations are set accordingly it’s good moving towards excellent at its role. Given the local traffic there’s already nothing I can think of that I’d rather commute in (the GT3 and our Audi stay in the garage), and if and when full self-driving becomes a reality that’s only likely to get more true. But it simultaneously has significant flaws and drawbacks…

Both things can be true: the Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor is both a good car and a bad one. It can have poor initial quality as well as industry leading owner satisfaction, just as their CEO can be a genius while still doing very stupid things. The Model 3D serves very well for the niche I need, but I’d be disappointed if I was expecting a true sport sedan. We can look forward to Porsche filling that niche, because if Tesla’s are designed to perform “up to 5” then Porsche’s are typically designed to perform from 5 upwards. And given that I expect the Taycan will be properly quick when it gets here. In fact faster than its gasoline powered counterparts for many types of use if they let it be.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c5d9b410e.jpeg
^The viper did beat me by 0.6 seconds. But I had the faster scratch time...

P.S: I just reviewed an electric car without using the word "electric" once. Because frankly for my use the power source is a complete non-issue. It's the effect- noise, response, etc, that are important.

daveo4porsche 08-20-2018 05:11 PM

what a balanced and fair review - I look forward to similar reviews being posted for the performance version and the forth coming "track mode" setting....I like the split decision approach - EV's are the same and different all the same time…

Petevb 08-20-2018 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by daveo4porsche (Post 15230720)
I look forward to similar reviews being posted for the performance version and the forth coming "track mode" setting....

My brother in law has one on order, I should get some seat time within a few weeks.

daveo4porsche 08-20-2018 06:09 PM

I prefer my Model S as my DD - but had a lot of fun on twisty roads in my GT3 this past weekend - same but different!

manitou202 08-20-2018 09:13 PM

Thanks for the excellent review! Sounds like a bomber commuter car with the potential to become a competitive all around daily sports car. A Model 3 with a 911 in the garage seems like a perfect mix.

Hopefully in the future Tesla will make a larger distinction between the standard models and the performance versions. Acceleration is one piece of the pie but a serious upgrade to the cooling, brakes, and suspension would be nice. Maybe throw in a more aggressive exterior and interior as well.

If Porsche can deliver the Porsche standard for performance with the Taycan it could truly be a game changer in the sports car world. I would love to pass a modern 911 at the track in my silent Taycan.

dhc905 08-21-2018 01:31 AM

Enjoyed reading! I know that the higher end version of my P85 (the +) had upgraded suspension over my regular air suspension, so it wouldn't surprise me if the iterative generations of the PM3 make improvements over what they initially release. I also have to say the staggered 21" wheels I have make a big difference over the stock 19" econo-wheels/rubber.

That said, with just rear motors, there still isn't enough rubber to keep the backend in a straight line when the accelerator is aggressively used, so having the dual motors and proper rubber is imperative for these, imo.

groundhog 08-21-2018 01:56 AM

Excellent review. Thanks for making the time and effort to do so without bias. I think it fair to say, most would agree Tesla make good solid daily drivers. :) . Also I agree the Taycan will take it up a notch, however the upper levels of performance will be tempered by weight and tires.

daveo4porsche 08-21-2018 12:33 PM

I'll be very very interested in what is allowed/possible once Tesla starts releasing their "Track Mode" modifications for the "P" version…it will be really interesting to see more feedback than the road/track article about how it changes the car's limits and dynamics…

Petevb 08-21-2018 02:09 PM


Originally Posted by groundhog (Post 15231824)
Also I agree the Taycan will take it up a notch, however the upper levels of performance will be tempered by weight and tires.

I love the sound of IC engines and the feel of light cars, so I say this with no enthusiasm: from a performance perspective I don't believe the weight will be be a real hindrance. The Nissan GTR is a 3830 lb car, while the 918 is a 3800 lbs in higher specs, probably closer to 4200 two up when I drove it. You can sense the weight and no doubt the rate it goes through consumables like tires goes up, but with enough torque and modern rubber the mass can be bullied into submission. Where you lose is feel and slip angle- these are not "playful" cars, they're sledgehammers. But that doesn't mean they can't be stupid fast uncorked. We're never going to see another gasoline car hold the record up Pikes Peak, and for practical speed in road cars (particularly over short distances) I see electrics being faster than gas very shortly and never looking back. This is largely because what limits the modern internal combustion engine sports car isn't technology, it's emissions and drive-ability/ drivers aids. Electrics have an untouchable advantage in both areas.

4pipes 08-21-2018 08:27 PM

Thanks for your balanced review. I have an i3 REX, which I love, but I’m intrigued by the Model 3. I found I can rent one on Turo for the day, so I’m going to drive it in many situations and see if I want one.

groundhog 08-22-2018 01:37 AM


Originally Posted by Petevb (Post 15232884)
Where you lose is feel and slip angle- these are not "playful" cars, they're sledgehammers.

Largely agree with your post - however, the piece quoted above is very important to many of us that like to drive (be it on a road or round a track). I drove a Lotus 430 Cup for the first time the other day and it reminded me of all the things I like about ICE cars - noise, fury, engagement - it weighs ~1000kg and was incredibly nimble and agile. Very special.

I think as a general rule people buy cars for two reasons (1) need - e.g. the daily driver, get you to work in comfort (2) pleasure - e.g. the sports car, which is often purchased for emotional reasons. Its the sports car that has to deliver an all round experience because of the very fact it was an emotional purchase - noise, drama, engagement, excitement, feel, smell and even fear, all come into play and the great ICE cars deliver this in spades.

I completely agree that EVs will ultimately dominate the market for some of the reasons you mention. I will have one as a daily when it makes sense to do so, for me that will be five or six years away when there is choice in the market place, when level 5 AD is available, when battery cooling and electrolyte performance has improved and when charging networks are better established.

Petevb 08-22-2018 02:08 AM


Originally Posted by groundhog (Post 15234542)
Largely agree with your post - however, the piece quoted above is very important to many of us that like to drive (be it on a road or round a track). I drove a Lotus 430 Cup for the first time the other day and it reminded me of all the things I like about ICE cars - noise, fury, engagement - it weighs ~1000kg and was incredibly nimble and agile. Very special.

I think as a general rule people buy cars for two reasons (1) need - e.g. the daily driver, get you to work in comfort (2) pleasure - e.g. the sports car, which is often purchased for emotional reasons. Its the sports car that has to deliver an all round experience because of the very fact it was an emotional purchase - noise, drama, engagement, excitement, feel, smell and even fear, all come into play and the great ICE cars deliver this in spades.

I completely agree that EVs will ultimately dominate the market for some of the reasons you mention. I will have one as a daily when it makes sense to do so, for me that will be five or six years away when there is choice in the market place, when level 5 AD is available, when battery cooling and electrolyte performance has improved and when charging networks are better established.

I’ve been dairying one for over three years and have been very happy. The right lease will protect you from any concerns around battery degradation, etc. For a “fun” car I suspect you’ll need to pry an manual ICE out of my cold, dead hands... see:
https://rennlist.com/forums/taycan-a...l#post15233948

Needsdecaf 08-23-2018 02:46 PM

Forget where I heard / read about the track mode but it sounded pretty trick. Road and Track? That will likely change your review quite a bit...

Thanks for taking the time to write.

The Model 3 is the most attractive Tesla yet for me....to own that is. Exterior looks don't do it many favors, IMO. But the price / performance bogey is pretty dialed in. I just CAN'T see myself buying a Tesla. Leasing one, yes. But I'm not sold on their reliability. I know, plenty of stories out there of cars with zero issues. Plenty of them with multiple issues as well. And I will also mention my friend who got his kids locked in the car during the test drive in 90 degree heat. The Tesla store had to remotely access the car and re-boot the HU in order to get the doors to open.

Scary.

Petevb 08-23-2018 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by Needsdecaf (Post 15238198)
I just CAN'T see myself buying a Tesla. Leasing one, yes. But I'm not sold on their reliability.

I'm curious about that myself. My Fiat saw a garage (any garage) once in three years. No fuel, no oil changes, no inspections. Front tires and they replaced the 12V battery while they were at it. However depreciation would have been staggering if I'd bought instead of leased; ~83% depreciation over three years.

My Tesla saw two software updates in the first week and a half (no noticeable changes that I could tell). I've been told by other owners to expect software issues. On the other hand I expect very low running costs (I have a free source of electricity at work) and moderate depreciation. The tech is evolving very quickly but the car is somewhat future-proofed given the ability to upgrade, while most other manufactures are playing catch-up. There could also be an effective 7.5k price increase with the tax credit expiration (though we'll see if that holds or they drop the price). Overall I expect significantly lower costs to own than our Audi S3, but we'll see.

br911 08-23-2018 08:35 PM

Very good and balanced review, very well written. Thank you. I believe my issues are mostly with the S and X models. For the level of the finishes and the overall quality of driving, I sincerely believe that one pays about a $30K premium for the privilege of driving an EV. Needles to say, I would not buy it; I would rather get anything Audi, MB, BMW or even a Cadillac ion the sedan side. The Model X has some advantages like the third row and doors ( could also be disadvantages?). Perhaps the EV premium in the TM3 is not that high, but I guess the IC noise and finish/build quality of some of the cars you mentioned would compensate some of the turbo lag and slow DCT or whatever transmission they come with. Just my preference, realizing that the future of cars will not be fun for me (maybe yes?).

I have nothing against Musk; as you say, genius with some idiosyncrasies. But I do appreciate the disruption and innovation. The mere fact that a Porsche enthusiast buys his car is a win for Tesla already. Now, this is a very different issue than buying Tesla stock or debt...


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