wogamax

Nice write-up. As another GT3, gone Tesla owner, I had the chance to test drive a Model 3 Performance last week. No track mode, almost all clover leaf around the dealership, and one rotary. My P85D is among the 1:20 that are coil. It's down 1.25", with stock Bilsteins and the PXXD's fatter sway bars. I say all that because I got into the Model 3P knowing it's an 800 pound lighter ride, with high expectations for speed, and fun.

It may be a faster auto-x car, and have more track endurance, but I was a little disappointed in the "5 tenths" stuff, too. Two things really stuck out (or up).

• M3P is 1cm lower, which ain't a lot. The car is basically high up, and I wouldn't be surprised if on the same (softer since intro) shock/springs as AWD Model 3. I say that, as Tesla used the same shock/coil part number for both P85D coil, and all later AWD coil Model S (I have a parts manual, in "right to repair" MA). It turned in great, with the lower inertia you'd expect, but the higher roll-center and especially the suspension compression, were somewhat disappointing for their "Performance" version. I didn't know there was no rear sway, in M3P, and have no doubt multiple suspension upgrade options will become available. Be wary about front camber not being very adjustable, if you plan on tracking (per Mountain Pass Performance). It reminds me of having to buy Fabcar arms (911).
• Power. If you haven't had a ride in a heavy Tesla accelerating quickly, especially with a ~360KW rear motor, you might not understand the impression left behind when something that heavy rolls out. The numbers already show M3P isn't as quick, but without the weight it is also less impressive as a DD. Down more in power, than weight, is how I'd compare the two. But I'd add we also have a 75D, at home, that is more like M3P since front/back power are about the same. You don't get rear biased power in M3P's AWD, which is uncommon relative to how mechanical AWD performance cars typically use (what?), half, or less, the power in front as they do in back? ~250HP in back of a 4,000lb car isn't a lot, by today's standards. This goes a long way toward how I would describe the "5 tenths" thing. I didn't get too crazy, with an advisor on board, but the understeer I experienced had no nanny interference.

I don't know the fitment limits, but see history somehow repeating itself with an even faster Model 3 Performance. I think the simple AWD was smart, because Tesla already have a history of "updating" for better acceleration times in its AWD Model S. Buying it, with a suspension budget, would have been my plan before the M3P test drive affirmed it. If "Track mode" can't dial up the rear power (& lift-throttle regen), its other dividends may not cover the higher ask. We'll see.

Seneca035

Good stuff guys - love reading your posts Pete! I agree with the other Tesla owner sentiments in here.

Former Tesla vet here - was there 9 years! Had a Model S 90D but now in a M3 RWD. Love the more svelte size (compared to the S) for city living. I have a 70 round-trip every day and jump on the highway two blocks from home and set autopilot straight away. I have an 11XXX vin; there's a couple very minor paint flaws, the back up camera has not come on a couple times when engaging reverse (likely software), and the bluetooth has been spotty. But Tesla always improves build quality over time and these will go away. The current Model S/X are excellent in build quality, and 3 will get there quickly. I have grown to love the spartan interior and the maps/traffic is light years ahead of any OEM (Waze-style notifications would be even better like police, debris, etc).

Eagerly awaiting the production Taycan.

daveo4porsche

Archimedes

Petevb

Archimedes

Yup, I was referring to the 1:48.7 turned by the RWD on Hoosiers. The Performance model turned a 1.46.8? Still in the same ballpark, about 1.5 seconds behind a Golf R. I'm sure RP could do better, but 7 seconds better? We'll see. If he beats his M4 lap time and can run a full session like that without overheating the battery and/or the brakes or having parts fall off, I'll be impressed. I'd still take the M4, but it would be an achievement. Laguna is a track that should favor the torquey car over pure speed.

Petevb

Petevb

Petevb

Archimedes

Petevb

daveo4porsche

I'm all for holding Tesla accountable and yes they do overpromise and underdeliver (except in the supercharger area - they just keep chugging along adding locations and stalls)…

but 1:30's in a 4 door street sedan @ laguna on street tires is a bit much in my opinion - a 1:3x lap time at laguna puts you in the advanced/open passing PCA GGR run group filled with GT3's and GT4's and the occasional cup car - there are not a lot of drivers that can do a 1:3x lap time at laguna - so for a mass market EV I don't see that as a requirement -it's in the 1:4x's @ laguna it's done - RP will probably do a 1:42.xx and track mode will probably move an advanced HPDE driver into the 1:44 zone - plenty fast for a $65k daily driver bone stock....I'm sorry I just consider this moving the goal post - it's not a sports cars, it's a premium performance sedan - and a 1:46 bone stock at Laguna puts it squarely in that mix

it's at 117 out of 147 in track times - http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988 - in most cases being driven by a race driver…asking the Model 3 to do a sub 1:40 lap time is asking it to match the performance of a 997 911 Turbo/GT3 (1:39.89 & 1:39.52 respectively) - if RP does a 1:42 or better then I think we get to remove the argument it's not a good performance car…

where we should/must hold Tesla/EV's accountable is in "stamina" - ok we've proven it can do a 1:46.xx lap time at laguna - with in the confines of street tires losing grip - I would agree we now need to see it do that for a full 20-30 minute typical HPDE session - with times falling off as the session progresses due to street tires and street brakes just like any other DD performance 3,800 lbs 4 door performance sedan…

1:36.xx lap time is a stripped 2018 GT3 as documented by ortho-Joe on this very forum and some wicked tires, alignment, brakes, and weight reduction - so you're calling for a Tesla Model 3 to match a stripped and fully prepped GT3? I'm crying foul on that requirement - 1:46 bone stock puts it in the mix - we're done on that standard - again I'll allow the stamina and full HPDE session requirement…it needs to be able to run for the full HPDE session time at near max performance - just like any other $60-70k performance 4 door sedan…

I've personally done a 1:38.xx at laguna in a '10 cup car - and the 2016 Pirelli West Coast series champion Robb Todd has done a 1:29.xx qualifying and maintains a 1:30/1.xx race pace for 1st place in 2016 in a '15 cup car fully prepped and dialed in…and driven very very well - all of these times were good enough to put him on pole in a very competitive field of cup cars- and take the overall championship in 2016…he was not lacking for competition (some much better funded than he was).

I do a 1:41.xx in my bone stock GT3 on street tires (Dunlops which I hate - I'm looking forward to being done with them and moving on to Michelins) and that puts me in the top 10% of GGR drivers with the only people faster are full race cars and fully prepped GT3's and GT4's - but I handily pass all but a few drivers at that pace - out of 140 cars at 2018 summer laguna GGR event only 25 cars in the advanced open passing group were running below 1:40's routinely and they were all hard core prepped and being driven very very hard…and I don't think a single one of them was on street tires.

but the progress has been breath taking and even compare this conversation to 1 year ago and if I had claimed the Model 3 would do a 1:46 at Laguna you guys would all be banning me from the forum...we are rapidly losing all the narratives as to why EV's suck (exhaust noise being the one place they will never match a gas car and some will lament that loss)…

so you don't get to demand a 1:3x lap time from a $60k performance 3800 lbs 4 door sedan bone stock before your are impressed - it's done, it's arrived - you do however get to demand it can do it for the full 20-30 minute session (which it can't currently) and you should probably talk to Laguna about installing some superchargers…cause I don't think it could do it all day long, but if it can do a 5 session HPDE day, turn 1:46's - the good news is there are 2 supercharger stations less than 10 minutes from Laguna (1100 Del Monte Center & 1901 Del Monte Blvd) that can top you off so you can drive home after exhausting your battery at your track day.

you do however get to demand 1:3x or better from Elon's vaporware $250k roadster 2

a lot of the anti-EV narratives are being knocked down one by one…and progress is accelerating - I'm optimistic for 5 years from now.

Tom Tweed

Since I was at this event and got nipped by the Tesla by .25 second, I'll add my perspective to this. I was running the same tires on my street stock '15 GT3 (Michelin Pilot Sport 4S) as the Tesla, but with probably 15 more heat cycles on them. The Tesla driver (Jad Duncan) is one of the best drivers in the San Diego Region, having won class championships for over 20 years at both AX and Time Trial events, and voted outstanding driver and/or instructor in the region many times. He has not autocrossed much for several years now, preferring to concentrate on the big track events in his former 996 Koni Challenge car, but wanted to try out his new Tesla and brought it down to the stadium for a go. The Caymans and Boxster in the top three were all well-prepared, modified cars on RE-71R tires, with experienced drivers. The GT3RS in front of him was a fully prepared car modified with 19" rims running 295F/345R Hoosier R7 tires, but the driver is only in his second season of performance driving in this (or any other) car, and is still learning (it could have easily taken TTOD with Jad driving it). The course itself was very open for the first half, and quite tight and narrow for the second half. The surface is very old, worn, coarse asphalt with many holes and some patched areas that stand proud and make for a bumpy ride, with about 75' of elevation change between the top and bottom of the lot. Here is the proposed track map that was fairly heavily altered in real time to avoid bad patches of asphalt. The course was tightened up considerably from turn 17 on down, with 18, 19, 20 and 23 becoming narrow, 90-degree turns to slow down the finish. The first half of the course was even more open than shown, and I hit 3rd gear twice in that section, reaching close to 90 mph, I think.



The archived results in the link Pete posted exclude Exhibition class cars from the top-10, so you have to scroll down to the bottom to see the X-car times, where Jad is listed. Here is a screen shot from the live results web site that shows top times listed with X-cars as well. There was also a prepped Focus RS on Re-71Rs driven by another very experienced club member between Jad and I, so I was actually 7th top time overall. I felt OK about the result as I was coming off a case of food poisoning a couple days earlier, my tires were old, the sun was in my eyes, the course didn't suit me, etc. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :-)

cometguy

I'm paying less in insurance costs for my 2018 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid than this article is claiming for the average insurance cost of a Model 3:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...-study-claims/

Petevb

That seems a little warped- I'm paying less than half what they found as average ($2814 annually) to insure my Model 3... That said I'm paying slightly less for insure my 2018 GT3 (with fewer miles).