skiahh

Some of CA's take in the diesel settlement should help fix the non-Tesla network!

daveo4porsche

got home Saturday afternoon - one supercharger stop in Petaluma - Eureka, CA to San Jose, CA - one 45 min stop overlaped with Lunch - so no travel delay - I'l update with final report tomorrow.

1800 miles - and no problems with the Tesla SC network - range is as expected - with the last run from Eureka to Petaluma being a 236 mile jaunt on a single charge (98% battery to 10% battery when I plugged-in at Petaluma).

man does the battery charge fast until it gets to about 50% - after 50% it starts to taper the charge…

more details later.

daveo4porsche

Final Summary:

• Miles Driven: 1820
• kWh Consumed: 668.9
• Average Efficiency: 368 Wh/mile or 2.71 miles/kWh
• Total Actual Cost to Charge: $0.00 + purchase price of a Tesla Model X P100D - charging is not "free" it's "included" -
• Total Cost to charge @ $0.26 / kWh _IF_ Tesla had charged me: $173.91
• Lowest Percentage at charger: 10%
• Highest Charging rate achieved: 118,000 watts (118 kW) vs. 120 kW theory maximum - this rate happens when battery is less than 40% - it tapers after that
• Supercharging stops while Traveling: 7
• Supercharger congestion: 0:00 spent waiting for a charger
• Tesla Supercharger Reliability: 100% (11 attempts 11 success)
• 3rd party network Reliability: 0% (2 attempts 0 success)
• Time spent "extra" for EV charging: 61 minutes on Friday + 30 minutes wasted on a non-functional 3rd party chademo charger - 91 minutes wasted due to being an EV
• Total number of super charging sessions: 11 (the 4 extra are "overnight sessions" done while car was idle)
• Total number of L2 charging sessions: 1 @ hotel in Ashland (40 amps) and 1 @ Lewis and Clark (48 amps)
• Estimated Gas usage at 28 mpg: 65 gallons
• Estimated Gas costs: 65 gallons at @ $3.87/gallon: $251.55
• Estimated Total Fill up stops at 22 gallons/tank: 3 fill up stops for the entire trip
• Estimated Fuel cost per mile for GAS: $0.1382/mile
• Estimated Fuel cost per mile for Supercharging _IF_ I had been charged: $0.0956/mile - Model 3 gets better range than my X - so it would be cheaper
• Estimated kWh Cost to equal ICE cost per mile: $0.3761/kWh
• Estimated Gas equivalent consumed @ 33 kWh/gallon: 20 gallons of gas equivalent - 91 mpg

My biased conclusion - there is NO WAY no how that you can "iron butt" an EV like you can a gas car - no question a gas car can be faster for distance vs. time. But for the type of family road trip that I just did with reasonable stops every 3-4 hours for food/snacks/bathroom and just general stretching I never really felt inconvenienced by the charging stops since I mixed them with stops I'd have to do anyways in a gas car - even if I didn't have to fill the gas car - I would've stopped for the humans in the car - and since we were traveling there were a lot of stops for sightseeing and other activities - so minimizing distance over time wasn't the goal.

But this was a "real" trip with done with a "real" family and covered 1820 miles with ONLY 7 fast charging stops done across 6 days - and only 91 minutes "wasted" because of being an EV - so in 6 days I would've saved 1.5 hours on an 1820 mile trip if I'd been in a gas car. I consider that really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things - and over the course of a year with 1 or 2 family trips I still find the EV a big win for the other times when I'm not road tripping it.

The estimated total supercharging costs are the $0.26/kWh published on Tesla's website - Model 3 owners don't have included supercharging so a Model 3 would've been billed - also the costs are over estimated because some of those kWh are from L2 chargers (mine leaving home) and the Hotel's L2 charger where charging was included with the room rental rate - so the cost estimate is worse case - I think it would be about $10 less if you removed the L2 chargers contributions.

I did the cost per mile calculation as an exercise - I didn't pay to supercharger because I have lifetime supercharging included with my Model X - so the estimates are for a Model 3 cost structure - but that is high because the Model 3 would've used less kWh. But if you've read any of my past postings you should know my perspective on fast charging while traveling is I stress less about hte cost of the electricity and focus on the time the fast charger is saving me while traveling - since 99% of my fuel costs are done at home - costs while "on the road" wash off me like the water on the back of a duck. As long as Porsche charges a reasonable rate for charging I don't think the actual costs will ever be worse than a gas car. Porsche would have to charge $0.3761 / kWh to equal the cost per-mile of a gas car.

general observations:

• careful analysis of the data below shows that often times I waited longer at a charger to get some buffer that was un-necessary - if you focus purely on the needs of any particular segment you could optimize your charging stops to get "just enough" to get to the next spot - this would save anywhere from 5-15 minutes at various stops - however I like to have some battery left when I arrive so that I can drive around town and do things.
• in all cases pulling in below 30% battery results in the charging rate starting at nearly 120 kW (120,000 watts) - this is the maximum rate of charge the Tesla Superchargers offer and the Model X can accept - this rate is maintained until about 48% battery - and then it starts to taper - with it bottoming out at less than 20,000 watts once the battery is above is 90% - from 90% on the rates get really really slow and approach L2 charging rates - so that last 10% is very very expensive time wise.
• in all cases you can reach 50-60% battery in less than 20 minutes - it's really really fast to get to 50%- one charge segment I went from 12% to 50% in like 12 minutes - the real cost of a charging stop is the 50-80% range which takes another 20-30 minutes - 80 - 95% is another 20-30 minutes due to tapering - with the 95-100% (2 kWh or about 6 miles of range) taking nearly 15-25 minutes…topping off a LiON EV battery is really really expensive time wise.
• Trust the battery burn down chart and you'll save time
• it still takes more planning than most people are willing/capable of engaging in to road trip an EV - I realize this - but with a good charging network it's very possible with minimal style changes to do the once or twice a year 1800 mile family road trip.
• Next year this trip would be even easier - in that Tesla's published plans will have doubled the number of supercharger locations along the routes I actually took this year - this would lead to more potential xx% - 60% stops since I could rely on a charging being where I need one.
• Range doesn't matter if there is a fast charger where you're going
• Charger reliability is key - if you can rely on a charging being where you're going you can drive with very little planning - unreliable charging networks are the potential problem with long distance EV travel

I welcome questions and comments

Sunday July 22nd

• Home to Corning Supercharger - 100% to 22% - 38 minute charging stop - 211 miles covered - ate lunch while charging - 0:00 time extra for charging stop - 78% battery leaving Corning
• Corning Supercharger to Mt. Shasta - 78% - 21% - 25 minute charging stop - 108 miles covered - beverage/bathroom/ice cream break - 0:00 time extra for charging stop - 60% battery leaving Corning
• Corning to Hotel in Ashland: 60% - 32% - overnight charge (7 hours while car was idle) - 77 miles covered - charge to 100% overnight using Tesla Destination L2 charger @ Hotel - 40 amps (8 kW)

• Ashland to Springfield Supercharger - 100% - 36% - 33 minute charging stop - 180 miles covered - walked to Starbucks - 0:00 time extra for charging stop - 77% battery leaving Springfield
• attempted to use 3rd party Chademo in Salem at govt. buildings - poorly designed parking stall made charging impractical - no charging done.
• Springfield to Portland - 77% - 32% - 110 miles covered - charge at near by supercharger during car's idle time - charge to 100% for next day

• visited Lewis & Clark College, visited waterfall outside of Portland - Hwy 30 easy - used 53% battery
• used L&C Tesla 48 amp charger on campus while doing 3 hour campus visit - car was idle so no charging time cost
• dinner with friends - usage pattern during the day was more "commuter" less "travel"
• charge at near by supercharger during car's idle time at end of day - charge to 100% for next day

• visited Portland State University - did some sightseeing (Powells book store)
• dinner with friends
• usage pattern during the day was more "commuter" less "travel"
• charge at near by supercharger during car's idle time at end of day - charge to 100% for next day

• Visited Reed College
• Portland (Reed College) to Astoria - 100% - 53% - no charging stops - 96 miles
• Visited with friends - love Astoria - lunch and dinner - running around Astoria
• Attempted to use Electric Highway Chademo Charger - FAIL - I hate 3rd party charger sites - very very unreliable - 30 minutes wasted on phone with customer support attempting to activate the charger - trouble ticket filed - will fix in 3-5 days
• overnight with car - no charging

• Astoria to Seaside Supercharger - 49% - 43% - 10 minute charging stop - 20 miles covered - waited in car for enough charge to get to Lincoln City with comfortable buffer - 10 minutes Extra time because EV - 50% battery leaving Seaside
• Seaside Supercharger to Lincoln Supercharger - 50% - 12% - 92 miles driven - 66 minute charging stop - beverage/snack and bathroom break - 51 minutes spend waiting because EV - 91% leaving Lincoln
• Lincoln Supercharger to Bandon Supercharger - 91% - 39% - 147 miles driven - 43 minute charging stop - lunch while car charged - 0:00 time extra for charging stop - 90% battery leaving Bandon
• Bandon to Eureka - 90% - 16% - charge at near by supercharger during car's idle time - charge to 100% for next day

• Eureka to Petaluma Supercharger - 100% - 10% - 49 minute charging stop - 224 miles covered - ate lunch at normal pace while charging - 0:00 time extra for charging stop - 76% battery leaving Petaluma
• Petaluma to home - 76% - 32% - 109 miles covered

daveo4porsche

and a note: the Tesla trip "burn down" chart in car was consulted "continuously" - it is Terrain and speed limit aware - and very accurately estimated battery % at destination with +/- 3% accuracy - it was an ESSENTIAL tool for this trip and a great confidence builder in that we knew certain segments could be accomplished. The trip would've been much more stressful with out this tool. I hope Porsche seriously considers something like this in the Taycan.

plug-share app is an essential tool for the EV road warrior - https://www.plugshare.com

see post #10 on this thread for an example of an estimated consumption curve for a particular travel segment.

daveo4porsche

the last line from the Trip computer - Oregon '18 is the stats from the trip.

Pokerhobo

Awesome series of posts! The biggest challenge I see from other car manufacturers trying to compete with Tesla is the lack of a supercharger network. In the long run, I'd hate to see different charging for Tesla, Porsche, GM, Hyundai, etc... On the other hand, an EV charging station can be put everywhere unlike gas stations which require large storage for gasoline. Restaurants, hotels, shopping malls having charging in their parking lots makes a ton of sense.

groundhog

Brilliant write up - informative and to the point. This is the type of information people need to see and understand.

I think it will be really interesting to see what this picture looks like when the road mix is something like 10%EV and 90%ICE - also as more come on to the road, the impact on charging times and the cost of charging has to be factored in (including electrical infrastructure which is ferociously expensive in urban areas).

Teslas results are out tomorrow - the short position is brutal. I'm booking losses at ~ $3.20 per share.

ipse dixit

Nice report Dave.

I'm wondering how feasible a trip like this would be anywhere but the west coast, or eastern seaboard.

Could one take a trip from SF to the Yellowstone? And back?

daveo4porsche

daveo4porsche

groundhog

From an engineering POV Tesla doesn't really have an advantage in the technology of fast charging (basically the technology is very simple - the cost of infrastructure may be a different story) and is in fact hampered by its battery decisions.

The real advantage for Tesla is it has gone through the pain of dealing with various agencies to allow chargers to be installed in various states and distinct locations. This is a big deal - they will have templated the approach and should have it down pat. New entrants will have a big learning curve. Europe will be a nightmare in this regard - old infrastructure, horrendous zoning and planning laws etc etc. The US has a big advantage as a market in this regard.

Tesla needs somebody other than Musk in charge.

ipse dixit

Based on this current map, I'm not so sure.

But eventually, no doubt. And probably very soon

daveo4porsche

wogamax

Nice real-world reporting. Thanks.

California's $.26/KWh", or your $173 equivalent electric bill, is a lot more for electricity than most places. The US average is 12 cents. A "Youtuber" recently posted a Model 3 review, noting he pays $.06/KWh off-peak. The amount you may pay "in the field" may be a lot more than your average price for re-charging, at home. (commercial demand charges and other differences) https ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47OFb8786ko

Same here. I've been 0/3, with CHAdeMO. Level 2, non-Tesla, non-DC fast, stations have been much more reliable when found at hotels, or anyplace where 20-30 miles of charging per hour can work (overnight @6-10KW). Only Tesla's hotel wall-units can push 20KW, when found. I haven't used one, but did bump into a nervous B&B owner.

Archimedes

The only thing that surprises me in your experience/write up is the cost that you would have incurred if you had been charged for the electricity. That's much higher than I would have expected. I though the cost per kW hour was lower.