I hope Porsche realizes that price is gonna sell these cars
09-10-2019, 02:45 PM
#436
I think you are being way too bleak.
- Yes the T and TS models are expensive, they always are for Porsche. It is hard for anyone to ever justify these models, regardless of platform (Cayenne, 911 etc) on rational grounds, and the pricing level merely continues this trend. I know plenty of people who earn well over $1M who would never shell out for them
- Yes the Taycan (at least models released so far) is optimised for performance, rather than range, which seems a bit silly, but it IS a performance brand. Having worked at Porsche, I can tell you that when they design any car, they have a prioritized set of functionality around which they distort their R&D dollars, and relative spend on the vehicle itself, and the top of the list are things like handling, stopping distance, etc. That is why traditionally, Porsche has been less than best in class in things like Multi media interface, as by design these things are identified as one step behind best in class to free up dollars for the above
- That said, the Taycan is a ****ing good looking car (I'm pleasantly suprised as usually Porsche messes up on the styling of a new platform, see gen I Panamera, Cayenne), with a great interior, that comes with the inferred reliability and reputation of a leading manufacturer, they will sell plenty. I would buy one for the looks alone.
Lastly, from a strategic perspective, it is entirely the right approach. There are 3 stages to disruption, with 3 appropriate responses
1) There is new technology/regulation/consumer taste, which will open up new and enduring addressable markets, but the business model and way of integrating it is not yet clear, although the working product is out there: appropriate response = build alliances, test product, experiment and find a business model that works
2) The above is true, and there is a competitor in the market that has a working business model and is starting to gain traction in your market, or adjacent markets, although it is not yet affecting the trajectory of your P&L: appropriate response = replicate and bring product to market if it's important to defend your share
3) all of the above and your P&L is suffering: appropriate response = Copy / Buy / move to the new business model as fast as possible
Tesla has proved 1), and is partway to 2), hence the response of Porsche is entirely proportionate and correct. It's not about a death grip on ICE. It's about learning and refining a business model that will be profitable, and allow them to ensure their addressable market is enduring, dependable, and perhaps allows them to go into some adjacency. They can do all this without risking the farm or doing it all at once as they are not in the third stage of being disrupted
Audi 5000.
- Yes the T and TS models are expensive, they always are for Porsche. It is hard for anyone to ever justify these models, regardless of platform (Cayenne, 911 etc) on rational grounds, and the pricing level merely continues this trend. I know plenty of people who earn well over $1M who would never shell out for them
- Yes the Taycan (at least models released so far) is optimised for performance, rather than range, which seems a bit silly, but it IS a performance brand. Having worked at Porsche, I can tell you that when they design any car, they have a prioritized set of functionality around which they distort their R&D dollars, and relative spend on the vehicle itself, and the top of the list are things like handling, stopping distance, etc. That is why traditionally, Porsche has been less than best in class in things like Multi media interface, as by design these things are identified as one step behind best in class to free up dollars for the above
- That said, the Taycan is a ****ing good looking car (I'm pleasantly suprised as usually Porsche messes up on the styling of a new platform, see gen I Panamera, Cayenne), with a great interior, that comes with the inferred reliability and reputation of a leading manufacturer, they will sell plenty. I would buy one for the looks alone.
Lastly, from a strategic perspective, it is entirely the right approach. There are 3 stages to disruption, with 3 appropriate responses
1) There is new technology/regulation/consumer taste, which will open up new and enduring addressable markets, but the business model and way of integrating it is not yet clear, although the working product is out there: appropriate response = build alliances, test product, experiment and find a business model that works
2) The above is true, and there is a competitor in the market that has a working business model and is starting to gain traction in your market, or adjacent markets, although it is not yet affecting the trajectory of your P&L: appropriate response = replicate and bring product to market if it's important to defend your share
3) all of the above and your P&L is suffering: appropriate response = Copy / Buy / move to the new business model as fast as possible
Tesla has proved 1), and is partway to 2), hence the response of Porsche is entirely proportionate and correct. It's not about a death grip on ICE. It's about learning and refining a business model that will be profitable, and allow them to ensure their addressable market is enduring, dependable, and perhaps allows them to go into some adjacency. They can do all this without risking the farm or doing it all at once as they are not in the third stage of being disrupted
Audi 5000.
Regarding the engineering you mentioned. I found this bit interesting about the 16.4" rotors on the Turbo S from Road & Track magazine:
A spokesperson told me that every Porsche is required to pass a braking torture test: 25 stops in a row, from 80 percent of a car's top speed down to 90 km/h (56 mph), with every fifth stop involving full ABS. For a car to pass, it has to generate between 0.8 and 0.9 g of deceleration every time.
The Taycan presents a unique challenge. Its 161-mph top speed is relatively low compared to other Porsche products. And the EV boasts ultra-quick acceleration, so it doesn't take long at all to reach 80 percent of top speed, around 129 mph. This meant that, during Porsche's braking test, the Taycan didn't have much time at all for the brakes to cool between stops.
Rather than change its braking performance standards for the Taycan, Porsche solved the problem by fitting those enormous brake rotors and ten-piston calipers. It seems a little funny given that, in normal daily driving, those giant brakes might almost never be activated, thanks to the car's regen capabilities. But the Taycan's brakes are critical to offering the performance Porsche demands—including the car's 7:42 Nürburgring lap time.
The Taycan presents a unique challenge. Its 161-mph top speed is relatively low compared to other Porsche products. And the EV boasts ultra-quick acceleration, so it doesn't take long at all to reach 80 percent of top speed, around 129 mph. This meant that, during Porsche's braking test, the Taycan didn't have much time at all for the brakes to cool between stops.
Rather than change its braking performance standards for the Taycan, Porsche solved the problem by fitting those enormous brake rotors and ten-piston calipers. It seems a little funny given that, in normal daily driving, those giant brakes might almost never be activated, thanks to the car's regen capabilities. But the Taycan's brakes are critical to offering the performance Porsche demands—including the car's 7:42 Nürburgring lap time.
Wow! That 25 stop in a row braking torture test sounds insane (with .8 to .9 G's of de-acceleration every time to pass), along with the My Gun Is Bigger Than Your Gun rotors and calipers solution. Guess, that's what you get, and what you meant for your Porsche dollars!?.....Hmmmm
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Sambof (09-10-2019)
09-10-2019, 03:42 PM
#437
Regarding the engineering you mentioned. I found this bit interesting about the 16.4" rotors on the Turbo S from Road & Track magazine:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...n-huge-brakes/
Wow! That 25 stop in a row braking torture test sounds insane (with .8 to .9 G's of de-acceleration every time to pass), along with the My Gun Is Bigger Than Your Gun rotors and calipers solution. Guess, that's what you get, and what you meant for your Porsche dollars!?.....Hmmmm[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's exactly what I was referring to, the development dollars and the car feature dollars will always be further prioritized around delivering cutting edge (ie > best in class) performance around the metrics that matter for Porsche customers and the brand values, eg braking, handling etc
That said, it would be interesting to see what a range optimized variant would do
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...n-huge-brakes/
Wow! That 25 stop in a row braking torture test sounds insane (with .8 to .9 G's of de-acceleration every time to pass), along with the My Gun Is Bigger Than Your Gun rotors and calipers solution. Guess, that's what you get, and what you meant for your Porsche dollars!?.....Hmmmm[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's exactly what I was referring to, the development dollars and the car feature dollars will always be further prioritized around delivering cutting edge (ie > best in class) performance around the metrics that matter for Porsche customers and the brand values, eg braking, handling etc
That said, it would be interesting to see what a range optimized variant would do
The following users liked this post:
CarMaven (09-10-2019)
