I hope Porsche realizes that price is gonna sell these cars
07-13-2018, 05:15 PM
#31
:
A $35,000 Model 3...
that’s comedy gold right there. I’d take a $30,000 Bolt or Volt over the $50k Model 3 all day. And my doors would actually close correctly and I wouldn’t have to work and iPad while I’m driving to change the cruise setting...
that’s comedy gold right there. I’d take a $30,000 Bolt or Volt over the $50k Model 3 all day. And my doors would actually close correctly and I wouldn’t have to work and iPad while I’m driving to change the cruise setting...
07-13-2018, 05:22 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
and Tesla just made the availability of the 35k model ambiguous - this is an interesting turn of events…
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/07...avent-changed/
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/07...avent-changed/
07-13-2018, 05:24 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
I'd much rather have an $85k Porsche Taycan vs. a $75k Model 3 w/no $7,500 federal tax credit
07-13-2018, 05:26 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
and $85k Taycan with Porsche quality will compare very very well to a fully optioned Model 3 and probably be preferable to the Model S
07-15-2018, 12:29 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
Agree the 35,000 model 3 has yet to be produced and including all settings in the touchscreen is too much for the model 3.
Howevr, until BMW comes out with their second generation electric cars and MB, Porsche come out with their electric cars, Tesla still has the best performing and best looking electric production cars on the planet.
35000 base model 3 is a much better choice than 30,000 leaf, bolt, volt etc.
07-15-2018, 09:23 AM
#36
Burning Brakes
If you have an young buyer who can't afford a big down payment (or pay cash) on a Model 3, they are looking at $650 a month with a five year loan. This is where Tesla has a disadvantage.
07-15-2018, 11:05 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
I agree if you were to purchase the vehicle. However most Leaf / Bolt / i3 owners lease. I leased both a Leaf and an i3 for less than $200 a month. The savings in gas almost paid for the lease payment.
If you have an young buyer who can't afford a big down payment (or pay cash) on a Model 3, they are looking at $650 a month with a five year loan. This is where Tesla has a disadvantage.
If you have an young buyer who can't afford a big down payment (or pay cash) on a Model 3, they are looking at $650 a month with a five year loan. This is where Tesla has a disadvantage.
07-15-2018, 03:47 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Given demand for the Model 3 there is currently no leasing option via Tesla, you can can Lease a Model X or S - but given the unclear residual value of EV's (as they are a new market and product) most leasing companies are at a loss has to how to structure a lease for an EV.
07-16-2018, 12:38 AM
#40
Agree. I’m leaning toward a taycan at this point, but waiting for the official Porsche announcement of specs, prices.
Bolt, volt, leaf all look like cheap cars some third tier company would rent from the airport.
Agree the 35,000 model 3 has yet to be produced and including all settings in the touchscreen is too much for the model 3.
Howevr, until BMW comes out with their second generation electric cars and MB, Porsche come out with their electric cars, Tesla still has the best performing and best looking electric production cars on the planet.
35000 base model 3 is a much better choice than 30,000 leaf, bolt, volt etc.
07-16-2018, 04:25 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
Tesla has been the only game in town. Hard not to be the best looking and best performing in a group of one. Tesla has been able to peddle a ridiculously overpriced, bland car because they were the only real option for the early adopter fashion set. But that’s all about to change. And having crawled all over a Modrl 3 and drivena Volt, if they were the same price, I’d still take the Volt.
You have the right to your own opinion of course but it’s not in line with the marketplace.
A half million people put down a $1000 deposit for the model 3, nobody’s doing that for the Bolt or Leaf.
Last edited by Drifting; 07-17-2018 at 04:27 AM.
07-16-2018, 01:30 PM
#42
to each his own, but if model 3 and Volt were on sale for the same price >90% of customers would choose the model 3.
You have the right to your own opinion of course but it’s not in line with the marketplace.
A half million people put down a $1000 deposit for the model 3, nobody’s doing that for the Volt.
The way I assess all Tesla models is simple. Assume it was an ICE vehicle and then judge it against the competition. In that comparison, they're all a joke IMO. So the question to the buyer is simply whether the EV aspects (stop light racing, fuel cost/maint savings) is worth a) buying a bland, less impressive overall package and b) paying more for it. Obviously, the early adopter nerd crowed was/is willing to do so. I think that will change as both competition grows over the next few years and Tesla gets beyond that early adopter fanboy group and has to sell a good car, not just a good EV.
07-17-2018, 04:21 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
But again, they're entirely different cars, one a hybrid and one a full EV. The Volt is competing as much against ICE as EVs, and is a compromise against either. Judging Teslas product by sale numbers to date or over the next 12-18 months is folly, because they've had no direct true competition. Even the Bolt is not a true direct competitor, as it's smaller, lower price point car. But that is all going to change.
The way I assess all Tesla models is simple. Assume it was an ICE vehicle and then judge it against the competition. In that comparison, they're all a joke IMO. So the question to the buyer is simply whether the EV aspects (stop light racing, fuel cost/maint savings) is worth a) buying a bland, less impressive overall package and b) paying more for it. Obviously, the early adopter nerd crowed was/is willing to do so. I think that will change as both competition grows over the next few years and Tesla gets beyond that early adopter fanboy group and has to sell a good car, not just a good EV.
The way I assess all Tesla models is simple. Assume it was an ICE vehicle and then judge it against the competition. In that comparison, they're all a joke IMO. So the question to the buyer is simply whether the EV aspects (stop light racing, fuel cost/maint savings) is worth a) buying a bland, less impressive overall package and b) paying more for it. Obviously, the early adopter nerd crowed was/is willing to do so. I think that will change as both competition grows over the next few years and Tesla gets beyond that early adopter fanboy group and has to sell a good car, not just a good EV.
Arch, I appreciate your passion as we’ve debated other things on RL. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you can’t ever, ever, ever, admit when you’re wrong.
We haven’t been comparing Tesla to other ICE in our discussion here, we’ve been comparing the entry level Tesla option, (35,000 model 3), to the entry level Bolt and entry level Leaf, all EV.
However, it is clear that the overwhelmingly majority of customers prefer the $35,000 model 3 over the $37,000 Bolt or the $31,000 Leaf, as a half-million people put down $1000 deposit for the Tesla and not for the other two cars.
You can have your own preference , however you should admit that the overwhelming majority of car buyers disagree with you.
07-17-2018, 11:45 AM
#44
I’m sorry, but I meant to say Bolt, not Volt. I meant chevys all electric car.
Arch, I appreciate your passion as we’ve debated other things on RL. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you can’t ever, ever, ever, admit when you’re wrong.
We haven’t been comparing Tesla to other ICE in our discussion here, we’ve been comparing the entry level Tesla option, (35,000 model 3), to the entry level Bolt and entry level Leaf, all EV.
However, it is clear that the overwhelmingly majority of customers prefer the $35,000 model 3 over the $37,000 Bolt or the $31,000 Leaf, as a half-million people put down $1000 deposit for the Tesla and not for the other two cars.
You can have your own preference , however you should admit that the overwhelming majority of car buyers disagree with you.
As regards EV vs. ICE, I think you missed my point, as I wasn't trying to compare an EV to ICE. My point is that Tesla built a great EV, by current standards at least, but not a great car. As a car, I think the Tesla is lacking and I think the best way to assess that is to remove the EV elements and then compare it to the competition. In such a comparison, it would fall flat and would sell like an Aztec. So for those of us who don't care much about ludicrous mode on a big heavy sedan or worry much about fuel costs, an EV won't be a compelling proposition until it is a great car, not just a great EV. My hope is that some of the EVs coming out soon are great packages overall. I don't want an ill finished sedan with no character, blank interior with cheap plastic and average seats, and a rear seat where my head hits the headliner. I want a great car that just happens to be an EV.
07-17-2018, 12:55 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Arch,
Not disputing your point that Tesla makes an average car, (but with ridiculous acceleration). So no need to belabor/repeat this point as I agree with you on this.
The disagreement is concerning the base model 3 vs other entry level EVs, as you paint all of Tesla with the same brush.
Average fit and finish, handling is completely unacceptable in a $80-120000 car such as the model S/X.
However, standards are different for entry level/cheap cars, which is my entire point. This is why the model 3 is the clear winner over the Bolt or Leaf, as fit finish of model 3 is much better than those cars, a far more attractive exterior, better acceleration, range, curb appeal, charging network, etc.
Base price of bolt without options is 37,000, base price of base model 3 is 35,000. Very easy to reach 45,000 with options on a bolt just like the base model 3.
They’re at the exact same price point, but the model 3 is a superior EV compared to the Bolt. 95% of people would pick the base model 3 over a Bolt or a Leaf.
C’mon man. Just admit you’re wrong for once. It’s a sign of character, not weakness.
The disagreement is concerning the base model 3 vs other entry level EVs, as you paint all of Tesla with the same brush.
Average fit and finish, handling is completely unacceptable in a $80-120000 car such as the model S/X.
However, standards are different for entry level/cheap cars, which is my entire point. This is why the model 3 is the clear winner over the Bolt or Leaf, as fit finish of model 3 is much better than those cars, a far more attractive exterior, better acceleration, range, curb appeal, charging network, etc.
Base price of bolt without options is 37,000, base price of base model 3 is 35,000. Very easy to reach 45,000 with options on a bolt just like the base model 3.
They’re at the exact same price point, but the model 3 is a superior EV compared to the Bolt. 95% of people would pick the base model 3 over a Bolt or a Leaf.
C’mon man. Just admit you’re wrong for once. It’s a sign of character, not weakness.
Last edited by Drifting; 07-17-2018 at 03:34 PM.