daveo4porsche

I will also be very interested in your perspective - my wife love's her X.

manitou202

I'm not a fan of the look, but I'm not a fan of SUVs in general. However I think her Volvo is gorgeous.

Buying an X would be much more about the Tech and having an all electric three row vehicle. We have three kids and regularly use the third row. So the X seems like the perfect vehicle for this.

daveo4porsche

family of 5 here - same consideration - I think you'll like the handling/acceleation/tech - you'll be disappointed with the space and the 3rd row, the front cockpit with the helicopter windshield is gorgeous - the FWD are a bit of pain but you can get used to them - the car is heavy but quick and given the low CG handles reasonable well for a car of it's weight/size - way better than any other 5,000 lbs SUV - don't skimp on the battery size - you'll be happy to have the 100 kWh battery in cold weather and for the occasional road trip.

I enjoy autopilot and the Tesla Infotainment software - for me personally happy EV ownership means having a decent charging infrastructure in my home so I can charge the car when I want to reasonably quickly, it's worth installing a 40, 50, 60 or 90 amp circuit for the EV charger if your home can handle the 240 volt breaker - the maximum charge rate for the model X is 240 @ 72 amps or 17,280 watts - that can charge the Model X if the battery is empty in about 6 hours worse case. The Model X comes with two different onboard chargers, one is max 48 amps, the other is 72 amps - work with Tesla if you decide to order and make sure you get what you want. A 72 amp charge rate will required a 90 amp breaker, a 48 amp charge rate will require a 60 amp breaker. The mobile charger that comes with the car has a maximum charge rate of 40 amps (50 amp breaker) - to get more than 40 amps you have to buy a wall mounted/hard wired charger from Tesla or any other EV charger - they come in a variety of sizes, shapes, and charging capacities. The minimum I'd recommend would be 240/30 amp circuit for any EV owner, although I know people who make do with less and they swear to me they are happy.

feel free to use my referral link if you decide to order - http://ts.la/david7673 -

I would also be happy to answer any questions should have them being a long time Tesla owner, but a realistic fan.

whiz944

Actually the newer Gen 2 UMC only has a 32-amp max. The original UMC had a 40-amp max. Reason is that a lot of NEMA 14-50 and 6-50 receptacles are on 40 amp circuits - not 50 amp circuits. So the new design protects the unknowing from themselves. With the older design you'd have to manually dial the charger down to 32 amps.

I charge my cars via either a NEMA 14-50R and Gen 1 UMC for 40 amp charging, or a 6-20R and Gen 2 UMC for 16 amp charging. We've been charging our Volt for the past few years with a so-called "JESLA" - an original UMC modified to have a J1772 plug instead of the Tesla plug.

I'm thinking of replacing the 14-50/UMC combo with a Wall Charger at 60 amps so I can charge the TM3 at a full 48 amps. In my case it is simply a matter of replacing the breakers. Wiring is a non-issue. To use the Wall Charger with the Volt, I can then buy a JDapter from Tony Williams.

Or help out a newbie Tesla owner and use mine https://ts.la/walter16611

manitou202

Thanks guys!

I won't be buying anything until next year. We are heading up to Denver and will be by the Tesla store so I figured it would be a fun detour to go on a test drive.

I prefer to see the full production Taycan and specs before I do anything. Ideally I will trade in my Panamera for a Taycan and my wife will pick up a Model X. However, I will need to space the purchases out a bit so all of that will depend on the timing of the Taycan.

daveo4porsche

the Model X comes with the 40 amp UMC - the Model 3 comes with the 32 amp UMC - NEMA 14-50/6-50 plugs should not be on a 40 amp breaker - hence the "50" in their description - for continuous loads you need to derate the breaker by 20% - which means 40 amp charging load needs a 50 amp breaker, and 32 amp charging load needs a 40 amp breaker.

whiz944

There is an exception in the NEC (National Electrical Code) which specifically allows a 50 amp receptacle on a 40 amp circuit. It has been there for many years. My trusty 1990s-something copy of the NEC even has it.

I thought new S and X are also being delivered with the new UMC. But perhaps I am mistaken on that.

unclewill

manitou202

The shift to EV's could kill and/or seriously wound several legacy automakers. Those slow to adopt could be run out of business.

I particularly think of Toyota. They have resisted the move to EV's, they don't have any competitive EV on the horizon, they have been focusing on fuel cells (which I believe is a lost cause), and their Lexus brand has actually been actively advertising against EV's. They probably won't go out of business, but they could shrink substantially.

Others like Subaru, Chrysler, and Ford also seem to be way behind.

RonF

Toyota is so big and with diverse products I think it could survive even that it's responding pretty slowly. I'm more worried of BMW which has too large market overlap with Tesla and Ford when Tesla pickup comes out in a few years. Without the ability to sell pickups at will it's pretty hard for Ford to survive.

whiz944

At least BMW has an on-going electrification program with real products that people can buy. Yes, the i3 is polarizing in appearance and too expensive. But its tech is decent. The PHEVs like the 330e and 530e are steps in the right direction too. The i8 is...interesting.

If one really wants to see bad economics, run the "well to wheel" calculations on H2 fuel cells. Toyota is in a dead end tunnel without a light. Honda finally seems to be taking a few steps to extricate itself from the H2 debacle.

Ford doesn't seem to have taken electrification very seriously...ever. (Even back in the '90s when they were facing the 'California Mandate'.) The Energi cars are nice commuters. But open the trunk, and where do you put the suitcases for the trip you want to take? And the performance is half-hearted.

umwolverine

I believe this is wrong on pretty much every level . Saying 'they all drive the same on the street, practically speaking' applies to a Porsche is completely devaluing the experience of driving a Porsche. What about the steering, the ride, the braking and the handling of the car? Actually, if you can't tell the difference between a Tesla Model S and Leaf in terms of driving, then I don't understand why you are driving a Porsche. What is it that attracted you to Porsche in the first place?

RonF

I think you underestimated Tesla even in the handling department. I mentioned it in a previous post Pulitzer prize winning WSJ auto critic Dan Neil said the performance version of Model 3 "definitely will beat your average Porsche on your average road course." There is no surprise there. The Tesla skidpad layout has much better CoG and polar moment of inertia than even the best mid-engine ICE layout. Tesla probably is not designing its cars with track use in mind, meaning sacrifice a lot of ride quality, but for street driving purpose I don't think you can ever beat it. Whether you like it or not there is every reason to go electric if you are a performance or driving minded person. I'm not going to argue the track performance of course. That's for the future but there is no reason it will not eventually come.

umwolverine

Originally Posted by umwolverine
I believe this is wrong on pretty much every level . Saying 'they all drive the same on the street, practically speaking' applies to a Porsche is completely devaluing the experience of driving a Porsche. What about the steering, the ride, the braking and the handling of the car? Actually, if you can't tell the difference between a Tesla Model S and Leaf in terms of driving, then I don't understand why you are driving a Porsche. What is it that attracted you to Porsche in the first place?

Ron, I'm not underestimating the Tesla - if you read my post I make the point that the Tesla S is a vastly superior handler to a Nissan Leaf, and that all electronic cars don't drive the same.

RonF

A Nissan Leaf is just a, well, Nissan Leaf but the Tesla type skidpad EV layout is far superior to any ICE layout you can imagine. We all know responsiveness and linear torque of electric motor but most don't know it also has a significant advantage in handling. The low cog and polar moment of inertia is what every high performance car designer wants to put everything into for. The rest are just tweaks. If you don't get the physics right no amount of engineering work could remedy that. It's pretty ignorant for any performance car makers not to take a harder look at it.