I hope Porsche realizes that price is gonna sell these cars
#256
Rennlist Member
And how many laps did it turn before overheating? We won't know because the whole thing was done by Tesla...
#257
Do you think a lot of people cross shop gas and electric cars? I never considered that because once I drank the EV kool aid, I pretty much relegated ICE cars to the "interesting antiques" portion of my brain, and I won't ever buy a new one again. But, it's true that if someone is spending $60k on a four door sedan, they will be looking at the 3-series, C-class, maybe the Lincoln, Caddy, Genesis, etc. as well as the Model 3. Here's a quick comparison in the press:
https://www.bmwblog.com/2017/08/02/t...per-bloomberg/
A new Model S is due but the new Model Y compact SUV will probably make a bigger splash because that market segment is still growing.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2017/08/02/t...per-bloomberg/
A new Model S is due but the new Model Y compact SUV will probably make a bigger splash because that market segment is still growing.
#258
Burning Brakes
...But where we are today is the start of an onslaught of EV's from nearly every mass manufacturer. Audi is launching the E-Tron and already taking deposits. Porsche is taking deposits on the Taycan (what an unfortunate name!). Jaguar has the iPace. Merc just launched the EQC, etc. The all electric X3 is coming. The Leaf is newly redesigned. Etc. I am not making any predictions, but will say that Tesla will face competition like it's never before and it should be very interesting to see how it plays out. They certainly have some advantages; the supercharger network, OTA updates, the "cool" factor, and others. However they've been playing solo in a market for some time now and that's going away.
I've sat in the new Model 3 (I can't say M3, that's a BMW sorry) and I was underwhelmed. Personal preference but I don't care for the design and I don't like having to depend so much on the screen for basic functions. I know that such things get easier with time however as someone who spends a lot of time in the car, there is something to be said for a certain level of physical controls. I have not driven one but expect it to be similar to the S, just a bit slower. Which is to say perfect for everyday commuting. Houston has some seriously boring roads and the Model S handles them just fine. I would expect the Model 3 to do so as well.
I wouldn't call the TM3 slow by any stretch of the imagination.
But I'm not an "early adopter" and so far I haven't been able to pull the trigger with Tesla. The Model S didn't fit me (I'm 6'2" and lacked headroom) and for the near $100k price tag, I felt the interior was underwhelming. I do not care for the Model 3's design, interior or exterior. The Model X is too big and too expensive for me. Right now I'd say my preference would be an E-Tron. But we'll see when it's released and what pricing looks like.
One thing's for sure, if you're an EV fan, things are about to become very exciting.
One thing's for sure, if you're an EV fan, things are about to become very exciting.
#259
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
In all seriousness, I don’t mind the giant iPad. I miss having gauge information in front of me. I think the model S is great. You have just enough physical controls to be convenient and also relevant info in front of you. I also like the portrait style layout. The Model 3...no. Too many controls taken away. Not enough physical features like vents, etc. Relevant info not readily at hand. And FWIW, I always thought ICE cars with center mounted gauges like the Toyota Echo and other’s was stupid too.
I vet vet innovation and change. Some of it works, and some not. I find the model 3 in the latter, not the former.
#260
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Elon also has a working Gigafactory. They, along with partner Panasonic, are making more automotive Li-ion batteries in it (in terms of gWh) than the entire rest of the worldwide auto industry combined. Soon to have a second one in China, and a third in Europe. All other manufacturers are heavily constrained by battery supply and higher costs. Battery plants of that scale take years to build. So it will be a while for everyone else. Ultimately, The World will need like 50 or more Gigafactory equivalents to replace the majority of worldwide auto manufacturing with EVs. So it will take another decade or two.
The physical controls are mostly there, but in different form. You use the thumb wheels and the stalks on the steering wheel a lot. There are voice commands as well (e.g., "navigate to mcdonalds", or "call joe mama"). But even the most used things on the touch screen are only a touch or two away.
I wouldn't call the TM3 slow by any stretch of the imagination.
That is for sure.
The physical controls are mostly there, but in different form. You use the thumb wheels and the stalks on the steering wheel a lot. There are voice commands as well (e.g., "navigate to mcdonalds", or "call joe mama"). But even the most used things on the touch screen are only a touch or two away.
I wouldn't call the TM3 slow by any stretch of the imagination.
That is for sure.
The physical cal controls are not there. I sat in the car 20 minutes and was able to do everything. Those scrolly wheels are decent, but not what I’m referring to.
Last edited by Needsdecaf; 09-17-2018 at 11:22 PM.
#261
Fixed it for you.
In all seriousness, I don’t mind the giant iPad. I miss having gauge information in front of me. I think the model S is great. You have just enough physical controls to be convenient and also relevant info in front of you. I also like the portrait style layout. The Model 3...no. Too many controls taken away. Not enough physical features like vents, etc. Relevant info not readily at hand. And FWIW, I always thought ICE cars with center mounted gauges like the Toyota Echo and other’s was stupid too.
I vet vet innovation and change. Some of it works, and some not. I find the model 3 in the latter, not the former.
For many years I commuted by motorcycle. The first thing I did whenever I bought a new bike was tape over the speedometer with electrical tape. I always found speedometers and other gauges to be a distraction from the task at hand, and wholly unnecessary when rolling with the flow of SoCal traffic. Never a single speeding ticket either btw!
So count me as one who won’t miss gauges when they are gone.
#263
#264
https://autoweek.com/article/green-c...n-and-panamera
Starts at $75k, ranges up to $200k for a “Turbo S”...
I’m guessing we won’t see sub-$100k cars in the US before the 2022 model year, if ever. No doubt Porsche will sell every one they import nonetheless, mostly because they won’t be importing very many and all early allocations will go to California.
Starts at $75k, ranges up to $200k for a “Turbo S”...
I’m guessing we won’t see sub-$100k cars in the US before the 2022 model year, if ever. No doubt Porsche will sell every one they import nonetheless, mostly because they won’t be importing very many and all early allocations will go to California.
#265
Three Wheelin'
Elon also has a working Gigafactory. They, along with partner Panasonic, are making more automotive Li-ion batteries in it (in terms of gWh) than the entire rest of the worldwide auto industry combined. Soon to have a second one in China, and a third in Europe. All other manufacturers are heavily constrained by battery supply and higher costs. Battery plants of that scale take years to build. So it will be a while for everyone else. Ultimately, The World will need like 50 or more Gigafactory equivalents to replace the majority of worldwide auto manufacturing with EVs. So it will take another decade or two.
.
.
#266
Some numbers is better than no number at all. Although it still does not say when the car will be available. In the mean time Tesla has already sold more cars than Porsche globally in Q3. And that's when Tesla has not even started to deliver cars outside the NA. Porsche should stop compare Taycan to Tesla and just make the darn car.
https://insideevs.com/tesla-out-delivers-porsche-in-q3/
https://insideevs.com/tesla-out-delivers-porsche-in-q3/
#268
The constraint is not the lack of manufacturing volume on battery. Factories can be ramped up. Yes, it takes time, but eventually gigafactories can be produced if the demand is there. It is the material source that is the constraint. Lithium deposits are few and located scarcely on a global scale. Currently only south America have enough lithium deposits to meet the current demand, but if EV cars go mainstream, materials other than lithium have to fulfill that role and so far technology hasn't gotten us there.
#269
Racer
Here’s some news.
Penta Daily
Porsche’s Taycan Electric Will be Fast, Quiet—and Under $100,000
The former Mission E will offer four doors and a zero to 62 mph time of just 3.5 seconds
Porsche announced on Wednesday that it would price its new four-door electric sports car, the Taycan (formerly the Mission E), at $92,500. That’s right between the Panamera and the Cayenne (also four-door vehicles), and the company thinks that—priced that way—it can move 20,000 units annually. It will be a challenge in an increasingly crowded performance electric space.
The Taycan (which means “lively young horse” in Turkish) will be more sports car than sedan, with a rakish coupe roof. It’s electric, but hardly slow: two permanently excited synchronous motors (PSM) together generate more than 600 horsepower. Zero to 62 miles per hour takes just 3.5 seconds, and the car can reach 155 mph. In European testing, the car’s range is more than 310 miles.
Stefan Weckbach, who’s in charge of developing the Taycan range, said in an interview on the company website, “It was clear from the beginning that an electrically powered Porsche—like every other Porsche model—must be the sportiest vehicle in its segment… It’ll clearly be a Porsche at first glance, because we’ve transferred the design DNA of Porsche to our future electric vehicles.”
According to Sam Abuelsamid, an auto analyst at Navigant Research, the price is not unexpected. “It really needs to be in this range to be competitive with the Tesla Model S,” he tells Penta. “Granted, this is a Porsche, so it should be possible to drive the price up considerably through the options list.”
The Taycan will have an approximately 90-kilowatt-hour battery, with 400 cells. Using a 350-kilowatt charging station, Porsche says it can add 62 miles of range in four minutes. That very fast charging—which could add 248.5 miles of range in 15 minutes—is made possible by the VW-funded Electrify America initiative, which is planning installations at 300 highway locations “from 2019.”
By the end of June 2019, Electrify America, which is investing $2 billion over 10 years, said it will be able to supply an interconnected network of about 12,500 chargers. Porsche is also looking at wireless charging—via a floor-mounted plate—for the Taycan.
Porsche says it will invest $6.8 billion in going electric by 2022—double its original estimate. As much as $573 million will go to developing variations on the Taycan. A higher-performance version could be priced at $229,000, Lutz Meschke, Porsche’s chief financial officer, told Automotive News Europe. Some$1.14 billion will go to electrify and hybridize the existing product line. And $800 million will be spent on such technologies as charging infrastructure and smart mobility.
In the Volkswagen Group’s electric plans, Porsche’s Taycan complements the Audi e-tron, a luxury battery SUV that arrives next year; and, from VW itself, the I.D. CROZZ (a crossover SUV, due out in 2020), and I.D. BUZZ (a reinterpretation of the Microbus, aimed at 2022). Both VWs will be built in the U.S.
______________
2014 991 TT
2018 95B S
Penta Daily
Porsche’s Taycan Electric Will be Fast, Quiet—and Under $100,000
The former Mission E will offer four doors and a zero to 62 mph time of just 3.5 seconds
Porsche announced on Wednesday that it would price its new four-door electric sports car, the Taycan (formerly the Mission E), at $92,500. That’s right between the Panamera and the Cayenne (also four-door vehicles), and the company thinks that—priced that way—it can move 20,000 units annually. It will be a challenge in an increasingly crowded performance electric space.
The Taycan (which means “lively young horse” in Turkish) will be more sports car than sedan, with a rakish coupe roof. It’s electric, but hardly slow: two permanently excited synchronous motors (PSM) together generate more than 600 horsepower. Zero to 62 miles per hour takes just 3.5 seconds, and the car can reach 155 mph. In European testing, the car’s range is more than 310 miles.
Stefan Weckbach, who’s in charge of developing the Taycan range, said in an interview on the company website, “It was clear from the beginning that an electrically powered Porsche—like every other Porsche model—must be the sportiest vehicle in its segment… It’ll clearly be a Porsche at first glance, because we’ve transferred the design DNA of Porsche to our future electric vehicles.”
According to Sam Abuelsamid, an auto analyst at Navigant Research, the price is not unexpected. “It really needs to be in this range to be competitive with the Tesla Model S,” he tells Penta. “Granted, this is a Porsche, so it should be possible to drive the price up considerably through the options list.”
The Taycan will have an approximately 90-kilowatt-hour battery, with 400 cells. Using a 350-kilowatt charging station, Porsche says it can add 62 miles of range in four minutes. That very fast charging—which could add 248.5 miles of range in 15 minutes—is made possible by the VW-funded Electrify America initiative, which is planning installations at 300 highway locations “from 2019.”
By the end of June 2019, Electrify America, which is investing $2 billion over 10 years, said it will be able to supply an interconnected network of about 12,500 chargers. Porsche is also looking at wireless charging—via a floor-mounted plate—for the Taycan.
Porsche says it will invest $6.8 billion in going electric by 2022—double its original estimate. As much as $573 million will go to developing variations on the Taycan. A higher-performance version could be priced at $229,000, Lutz Meschke, Porsche’s chief financial officer, told Automotive News Europe. Some$1.14 billion will go to electrify and hybridize the existing product line. And $800 million will be spent on such technologies as charging infrastructure and smart mobility.
In the Volkswagen Group’s electric plans, Porsche’s Taycan complements the Audi e-tron, a luxury battery SUV that arrives next year; and, from VW itself, the I.D. CROZZ (a crossover SUV, due out in 2020), and I.D. BUZZ (a reinterpretation of the Microbus, aimed at 2022). Both VWs will be built in the U.S.
______________
2014 991 TT
2018 95B S
#270
Wow...$92,000. I guess answer to op's question is no it didn't. Even though some want to compare it to the Model S the Model S is a bigger and much quicker car not to mention all the technology in it. The more comparable Model 3 costs only half as much. Although Porsche likely will still sell all the small number of Taycan it cares to make. Someone who wants a Porsche, and has extra cash laying around, will still get a Porsche but that person will not be me.
Funny that it says It’s "electric, but hardly slow". Apparently those people still don't get it.
Funny that it says It’s "electric, but hardly slow". Apparently those people still don't get it.