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Preparation prior to taking delivery?

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Old 01-11-2018, 04:10 AM
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DannieK
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Default Preparation prior to taking delivery?

Does anyone know the preparations needed prior to taking delivery on a Mission E? Like electrical requirements, dedicated line (optimum power needed?), solar panels (optional), and of course the inductive mat and cable. But I don't know what else, if anything, would be needed to take full advantage of the Mission's advanced rapid charging system, etc. I have a detached garage and want to be as prepared as possible on the day it arrives.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:34 PM
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Porsche fast charging can’t be done in 99.99999 % of residential homes - home charging is limited to 240 volts 100 amp max - 19,200 watts - but that will depend if Porsche puts in a 100 amp charger in the car - I’m going to predict a 48 amp charger which would charge the car from empty to full in about 8 hours.

the 800 volt 400 amp fast charging system will be a commercial install not a home installation.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:38 PM
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Here is a post I authored on the Chevy Bolt forums that goes into the details of charging an EV - this was specifically for the Bolt - but it holds true for al EV’s

_—————

I've been reading a lot of posts and given the relative new community of Bolt owners the basics of charging math seem to be coming up quite a bit. In the past I've done similar posts on other EV forums that have been well received. For the new EV owner here are the basics of calculating charging time for your Bolt or other EV car. If you know this already you can safely skip this posting - nothing to see here that you don't already know.

EV batteries are measured in kWH (Kilowatt hours) or 1000 watt-hours - a watt hour is a unit of measure of 1000 watts of a electricity for 1 continuous hour. The Bolt comes with a 60,000 watt-hour battery - or 60 kWh battery. Charging a Bolt battery from empty requires 60,000 watt-hours.

How do I calculate watts?

Turns out the math is simple:

you need to know 2 factors about your electrical supply (or charger).

Volts
AMPs

watts = Volts * AMPS
watt-hours = (Volts * AMPS) + time

In the US electrical circuits are typically either 120v - 120 volts or 240 volts. 120 Volts are a typical wall plug in your home or kitchen or room, most home appliances are 120 volt devices, and 240 volts are typically: ovens, electrical water heaters, electric dryers, air conditioners, hot tubs

(* in the US volts vary for 120 volt from 100-130 volts, and 240 volts vary from 200 to 250 volts - it all depends on your electrical provider, your houses main panel, time of day, overall load on the grid and so on and so forth). For purposes of this posting we're going to use 120 volts and 240 volts which is the "ideal" goal of the US electrical system - your actual watts will vary based on your actual home supply characteristics. If you can measure your home's voltage you can adjust the math below to actual volts and the watt calculations will change slightly.

Electrical Circuits are installed in panels with am AMP rating for different voltages (120 or 240). Typically breakers are rated at peak/temporary load, and continuous load. For continuous load you have to de-rate the breaker by 20% - so a 10 AMP breaker is only rated to deliver 8 AMPs of continuous load. Loading a breaker at more than 80% of it's rating continuously is not recommended and can cause problems.

Charging an EV is considered continuous load (any load for more than 3 hours) so the 80% rule is in effect.

so let's figure out how do we calculate charging time for a given charger for a Bolt.

Typical home Plug - 120 volts on a 15 AMP circuit - derate by 20% - 12 amp continuous load

120 volts * 12 AMPs = 1440 watts or 1.44 kw - do this for one hour at you get 1.44 kilowatt hours

charge the Chevy Bolt from empty with this charging rate and you divide 60 killowatt-hours / 1.44 kilowatt hours = 41.667 hours - that's best case and there is about a 10% loss with the chargers so 41.667 * 1.1 = 45.8 hours - we add a 10% fudge factor to deal with various in-efficiencies in the whole charging infrastructure.

so it will take 46-48 hours to fully charge an empty Bolt from a normal house hold plug @ 12 amps on a typical home 15 AMP circuit.

The Chevy Bolt Default 120 volt setting - 8 AMPS - since many homes were never built with continuous loads in mind - Chevy has taken a conservative approach and defaults the Bolt's 120 volt charging rate to 8 AMPS (or about 50% of a 15 AMP break's load - this is to account for poor plug quality and potentially poor wiring in some homes) - so the math for this default setting to fully charge a Bolt from empty is

120 volts * 8 AMPs = 960 watts or 0.96 kw
60 kwh (volt battery) / .96 kw = 62.5 * 10 % fudge factor = 68.75 hours or there about

some homes/garages have 120 volt / 20 AMP circuits - these are typically used for engine block heaters and use a different plug from the normal household plug - 20 amps * 80% - 16 amp continuous load

120 volts * 16 amps = 1920 watts or 1.92 kilowatts
60 kwh / 1.92 kw = 31.25 hours * 10% fudge factor = *1.1=34.375 hours or about 35-36 hours to charge from a home 120/20 amp circuit - you'd need to find a EV charger for this however because Chevy's charger that comes with the car doesn't support this type of plug/circuit

as you can see 120 volt house hold circuits really don't do the job - to properly charge an EV you typically want to use a 240 volt circuit. To do this there are lots and lots of choices for various EV charges are all sorts of different AMP Ratings. Typically you want to buy an EV charger who's maximum AMP rating matches or exceeds your EV car's charging capability.

The Chevy Bolt can handle up to a 40 AMP circuit, with a 32 AMP continuous draw. So any EV charger up to 40 AMPS will charge your Bolt much faster than your typical 120 volt house hold circuit. Typical 240 volt breakers are: 16 AMP, 24 AMP, 30 AMP, 32 AMP, 40 AMP, 50 AMP, and in increments of 10 AMPS upto 200 AMP circuits (typically a 200 AMP breaker is on most homes for the entire house, most US homes have 80, 100, 125, 150, 200, 400 AMP main whole-house breakers)

Math for charging at 240 volts for various AMPS are:

16 AMP 240 volt breaker - 240 volts * 12.8 AMPS = 3072 watts or 3.072 kw = about 22 hours to fully charge an empty Bolt
20 AMP 240 volt breaker - 240 volts * 16 AMPS = 3840 watts = about 17-18 hours to fully charge an empty Bolt
24 AMP 240 volt breaker - 240 volts * 19.2 AMPS = 4608 watts = about 15-16 hours to fully charge an empty Bolt
30 AMP 240 volt breaker - 240 volts * 24 AMPS = 5760 watts = about 12-13 hours to fully charge an empty Bolt
32 AMP 240 volt breaker - 240 volts * 25.6 AMPS = 6144 watts = about 11-12 hours to fully charge an empty Bolt
40 AMP 240 volt breaker - 240 volts * 32 AMPS = 7680 watts = about 9-10 hours to fully charge an empty Bolt

------------------------------- Bolt can only handle 32 AMPS - math below is for a 50 AMP circuit which may charge other EV's faster, but not the Bolt - since it will only use 32 AMPs regardless of "bigger" AMP ev chargers -------------------------------

50 AMP 240 volt breaker - 240 volts * 40 AMPS = 9600 watts = about 7-8 hours to fully charge an empty Bolt if it could handle a 40 AMP charge rate which it can't.


Typical public chargers on the West coast from Chargepoint network are 208 volts at 30 amps charge rate (I don't know what the breaker is but the car reports 30 amp charge rate) or 6,240 watts.

208 Volts * 30 amps = 9620 watts or 11-12 hours to fully charge an empty volt from your typical J-1772 public charger.

Charging times will be less for actual usage since most people only drive 40-60 miles a day - you can do the math for kWh usage - at 4 miles per kWh for the Bolt - typical 60 mile/day usage = 15 kWh to recharge at the end of the day

running the table for this approximate charge times are as follows at various voltages and charge rates

120v @ 8 amps for 60 miles of driving = approximately 12 hours charge time
120v @ 12 amps for 60 miles of driving = approximately 9 hours charge time
240v @ 16 AMP circuit for 60 miles of driving = approximately 6 hours charge time
240v @ 20 AMP circuit for 60 miles of driving = approximately 5 hours charge time
240v @ 24 AMP circuit for 60 miles of driving = approximately 4 hours charge time
240v @ 30 AMP circuit for 60 miles of driving = approximately 3 hours charge time
240v @ 32 AMP circuit for 60 miles of driving = approximately 3 hours charge time

208v @ 30 AMP charge rate for 60 miles = approximately 2.64 hours charge time - typical J-1772 Public Charger (Charge point)

240v @ 40 AMP circuit for 60 miles of driving = approximately 2 hours charge time

-------------------- Bolt Cut off -------------------- 32 AMPS is maximum charge rate for a Bolt --------------------
240v @ 50 AMP circuit for 60 miles of driving = approximately 1.5 hours charge time

DC Fast Charging is another whole ball of wax - and the typical math there is 400 volts * some number of AMPS - the wattage ranges from 24,000 watts (charge point) to 50,000 watts (evGO) and some DCFast chargers in Europe are going as high as 100,000 watts. The math is a little complicated because you can not charge the battery at the same rate during the entire charge cycle, the closer to full the battery is the slower the charge, you can only pump maximum wattage into the battery when it's close to empty. But basically…

24,000 watts would charge the Bolt from empty to full approximately 2.5 hours
50,000 watts would charge the Bolt from empty to full approximately 1.2 hours
100,000 watts would charge the Bolt from empty to full approximately 0.6 hours or about 40 minutes

keep in mind the numbers above are theoretical and times will likely be longer because you have to taper the charge rate once the battery gets above 80% charge rate you can no longer pump full wattage into the battery - so it will take longer to charge the last 20% than to charge the 1st 80% of a battery

Tesla superchargers are 400 volts * 400 amps and therefore 160,000 watts - so if we had an adapter you could charge a Bolt in 22 minutes - LOL - but again that's theory- and I think the DCFast charging hardware on the Bolt is limited to 60,000 watts so any DCFast charger offering more than that would be ignored by the Bolt and it would only charge at a 60,000 watt level regardless of how much power the charger offered above that.

I hope you've found this posting useful and I _KNOW_ the internet will correct any mistakes (people on forums are ruthless that way - ) - I'll be happy to answer any questions and if necessary post any corrections.

Enjoy your Bolt! I'm having super fun with mine!!!
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:10 AM
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With OP's signature, should just go with one of these. It'll do 320KW, easy:


https://www.coloradostandby.com/main...le-generators/
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by daveo4porsche View Post
Here is a post I authored on the Chevy Bolt forums that goes into the details of charging an EV - this was specifically for the Bolt - but it holds true for all EVís
Thank you for all of your math homework, but it is probably more relevant to look at energy used per day than flat battery recharge rates - why my next door neighbor can use a 110V plug to "refill" his Model S each night for his 8 mile round trip commute...

The more research I do, the more sold I am on short range EVs like the i3, 500e and the old Leaf. For cruising around Salt Lake City, where a long driving day means 25 miles and speed limits are 25-35 mph, a highly depreciated used EV will get the job done with energy to spare and allows me to save the ICE for highway use. I'll keep the deposit on the Mission E, but we'll see what happens when my number comes up.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:40 AM
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I wanted to show people where the numbers come from - but yes in 4 years of driving EVs the daily charge duration for daily driving distances is much less..and once you go EV there is no going back.
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by daveo4porsche View Post
I wanted to show people where the numbers come from - but yes in 4 years of driving EVs the daily charge duration for daily driving distances is much less..and once you go EV there is no going back.
So what does your typical driving day look like? How many kWh are you typically using? What %age of battery life are you using? Which is more efficient, Tesla or Chevy? Do you plug in to 110V or 220V? Enquiring minds want to know!
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:49 PM
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50-80 miles typical - 180 miles/day once or twice a month..

Bolt is more efficient @ 4’ish miles/kWh vs 3’ish miles/kWh for Tesla

day use tends to use 20-30% battery depending on commute + errands maybe post work family dinner out

12 - 18 kWh/day per car typical - charge at PG&E EV-A off peak rate at $0.1254/kWh via scheduled car charging

3 x 240 volt Tesla chargers - 1 master 2 slaves sharing a 60 amp circuit (48 amp charge rate) - Bolt charges via Tesla chargers via an adapter - I expect to use same adapter for mission e
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by daveo4porsche View Post
That is some good information! Thanks!
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Old 01-20-2018, 01:09 PM
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To answer the OP’s question - pull a 100 amp circuit + cat 5/6 wire to the garage and you’ll be good

100 amp is the max charge rate supported by j-1772 which is the North American EV charging standard - no word yet on what Porsche will support - but I’m betting no lower than 32 amps (40 amp breaker) to probably 48 amps (60 amp breaker) - Tesla supports up to 72 amps (90 amp breaker)

cat 5/6e wire so you can have a WiFi hotspot in the garage for the cars data link - remote access to cars is a major feature of most EVs and that means the car needs/has its own internet connection.
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Old 01-21-2018, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by daveo4porsche View Post
To answer the OPís question - pull a 100 amp circuit + cat 5/6 wire to the garage and youíll be good

100 amp is the max charge rate supported by j-1772 which is the North American EV charging standard - no word yet on what Porsche will support - but Iím betting no lower than 32 amps (40 amp breaker) to probably 48 amps (60 amp breaker) - Tesla supports up to 72 amps (90 amp breaker)

cat 5/6e wire so you can have a WiFi hotspot in the garage for the cars data link - remote access to cars is a major feature of most EVs and that means the car needs/has its own internet connection.
Thanks! That's exactly what I needed to know.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:59 PM
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from the article

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-ne...cks-frankfurt/

‘We’ll also be able to tailor charging output to customer needs. For example, 3.6 kW for a plug-in hybrid or 7.2 kW for drivers who want to go faster in their Porsche vehicle. For purely electric vehicles, the customer can choose between 11 kW and 22 kW.’

3.6 kW = 240 volts @ 16 amps (20 amp circuit breaker)
7.2 kW = 240 volts @ 30 amps (40 amp circuit breaker)
11.0 kW = 240 volts @ 48 amps (60 amp circuit breaker)
22.0 kW = 240 volts @ 92 amps (115 amp circuit breaker) - this one concerns me because the North American J-1772 standard only covers uptown 19.2 kW or 240 volts @ 80 amps (100 amp breaker) - we'll have to see what shakes out here…

for comparison purposes AC L2 charger rates for various EV's are:

Nissan Leaf 3.3 kW or 6.6 kW charger
Chevy Bolt 7.6 kW charger
Ford Focus EV 7.2 kW charger
Tesla(s) S/X/3 - various combinations of 7.6/9.6/12/17.2/19.2 kW depending on the type of charger you've installed in the car or Tesla provides as "default"

to-date Tesla has the fasted L2 chargers in car and home EVSE's @ 100 amps for a 80 amp charge rate - which is the maximum rate covered/documented in the J-1772 standard.

Most "public" L2 J-1772 chargers are 208 volts @ 30 amps - or just about 6 kW

Fast chargers are commonly referred to as L3 and they by-and-large are DC (not AC) and provide 400 volts @ up to 400 amps - various EV manufactures have support for DC fast chargers to some degrees - Porsche plans a 800 volt system @ 400 amps for 320 kW charge rate…yippee!
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:00 AM
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