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Range anxiety is a fallacy

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Old 12-03-2017, 11:13 AM
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unclewill
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Default Range anxiety is a fallacy

My neighbor hasn't been to a gas station in 40+ years - why? He has a gas pump next to his barn and he doesn't drive more than 300 miles in a day.
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:40 PM
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That title is misleading.

Whether or not range matters depends entirely on what sort of driving you do. Your neighbor may not have ever driven more than 300 miles in a day, but I've done it lots of times. Up until this year, I was guaranteed at least one trip to Virginia every year, which was 450 miles each way. I've done more than one road-trip vacation. My parents were much more extreme about regular long-distance driving - we'd drive from Michigan to wherever every summer, and "wherever" was frequently Montana (1700 miles) or Colorado (1500 miles). Every summer I can recall for at least 10 years.

If you're essentially a stay-at-home, yeah, the lack of a charging network for the Mission E doesn't matter. But not everyone is.
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:35 PM
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Gus,

I am with you as a big time "Road trip" driver. I have made multiple nonstop trips from MI/WI to Florida and many many trips from the midwest to Colorado/Utah/Montana/Wyoming ski areas.

Stops were like pitstops and as quick as possible... Always under 5 minutes... No way an EV could do this type of driving...

That said, about 90% of my miles are within 250 miles of home so an EV could work as part of the quiver.

EV's are the future.
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:50 PM
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I think I could deal with a 30-40 minute stop at a Supercharger if I combined it with a pitstop for lunch. The issue is that Superchargers are Tesla-specific. Tesla's offered to open up the network to other companies, but they have to buy in, and so far no other car company has been willing to pay for that. Certainly I don't see Porsche doing it, and I don't see Porsche building its own network either.

As for having a car that is strictly for local use, I think many families can make that work. 2 car garage, one of which is either an internal combustion car or at most a PHEV. Or of course there's Will's neighbor who never goes anywhere and doesn't need a car with the range.

For me, personally, it'd have to be a third car. I'm not giving up my 911 for one, and my wife won't give up her Cayman. Since I don't have garage space for one, that's not going to happen any time soon.
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:38 AM
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My neighbor (and I) actually live 25 miles from town so every trip to the grocery store is a 50 mile round trip.
My point is simply that unless you refill your cars fuel tank multiple times each day, an EV will work for you because plugging into your garage is equivalent to having a gas pump at your house.
Of course you won't be driving 650 mile days on a road trip - that is why Hertz rents Suburbans (and 911s)!
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:44 PM
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I suspect range and infrastructure are going to be less and less of an issue. All big OEMs are rushing solutions as they are feeling competitive pressure from Google and Apple. BMW , VW and others don't want to become contract manufacturers for Google so all are pulling in AV and Electric. Think we are about to see big change in transportation industry in next 3 years.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by unclewill View Post
My neighbor (and I) actually live 25 miles from town so every trip to the grocery store is a 50 mile round trip.
My point is simply that unless you refill your cars fuel tank multiple times each day, an EV will work for you because plugging into your garage is equivalent to having a gas pump at your house.
Of course you won't be driving 650 mile days on a road trip - that is why Hertz rents Suburbans (and 911s)!
This assumes you live in a house, with a garage or easy access to an outlet. Even then the EV owner will need to be inherently more of a planner than the dino burners. Some days you may forget to plug in the night before. That's a problem. With gas it's just an inconvenience to go fill up. Plus plans change. You get a phone call and need to rush off to deal with some curve ball life just threw you and suddenly your 50 mile round trip milk run needs to become a 500 mile round trip emergency.
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:52 PM
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Since I live in the land of EV's I have spoken to a lot of people about this issue. Their response is that they changed their driving habits slightly during road trips. They said their stops are much more relaxing now since they are not always rushing to get back on the road as quickly as possible. There is time to get out of the car, eat, stretch a little and then get back on the road. I am still a little skeptical, but makes sense to me in a lot of ways.
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
Since I live in the land of EV's I have spoken to a lot of people about this issue. Their response is that they changed their driving habits slightly during road trips. They said their stops are much more relaxing now since they are not always rushing to get back on the road as quickly as possible. There is time to get out of the car, eat, stretch a little and then get back on the road. I am still a little skeptical, but makes sense to me in a lot of ways.
That's putting the chariot in front of the horse.

Now the car dictate what the driver does.
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:08 PM
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On long trips I’m rarely ready before the car for the typical 500 mile per day road trip.

you do have to change slightly but not a lot and the charging free - if you plan your charging stop with a meal break the charging time is a non issue.
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Old 12-17-2017, 10:59 PM
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and what happens when a couple other people get teslas and now the superchargers are all full? You have to wait for them to finish, while eagle eying the charging station, and extending your trip by another 20 minutes. Maybe I'm alone, but I've driven 800 miles a day with maybe 2 quick gas stops and maybe a 20 minute food break. I don't have any interest in sitting somewhere for 40 minutes, twice, on such a trip.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:49 AM
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When I adopted two dogs from the pound, my road trip habits changed drastically - I now stop every hour or so to walk the dogs and stretch my legs as well. It makes trips far more relaxing and I have seen many interesting places and met new friends I normally would have sped by at 80 mph.
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Old 12-20-2017, 06:03 PM
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It amuses me that the biggest argument against the EV is range, and while for most people, most of the time, the range is sufficient, there are those of us who do not care for it. What WILL be an industry changer is when the EV manufacturers give up on Li-ion and move onto something with greater energy density so we move past the 300-mile limit to 1000-miles or more.

My winter DD is a TDI. Until EV's can hit 1000 miles on a charge, as the TDI can, I'll be burning dinos.

But when EV's can... then I'll switch. Just need new battery tech.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:46 AM
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BMW just invested in Solid Power, a Colorado company working on solid electrolyte Lithium ion batteries which may offer up to triple the energy density of today's top batteries by 2025. The technology to bring 400+ mile range in a smaller, lighter, safer package will be here soon (more reason to lease the Mission E).
In the meantime, we'll all be holding our noses behind those stinky TDIs...
: )
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Old 12-28-2017, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mcfisticuffs View Post
It amuses me that the biggest argument against the EV is range, and while for most people, most of the time, the range is sufficient, there are those of us who do not care for it. What WILL be an industry changer is when the EV manufacturers give up on Li-ion and move onto something with greater energy density so we move past the 300-mile limit to 1000-miles or more.

My winter DD is a TDI. Until EV's can hit 1000 miles on a charge, as the TDI can, I'll be burning dinos.

But when EV's can... then I'll switch. Just need new battery tech.
Graphene batteries could be that game changer.
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