GVA-SFO

I’m looking at a Boxster to purchase and before doing that, I did asked for a “scan”.
(I think, we should all do that, ..before buying a P Car !)

From the scan, I found on the PIWIS reading :
R1 : 56’000 rotations
R2 : 4 rotations

Do any of you would have a good interpretation of such result ?

To me, 56’000 rotations “touching the red line”, is somehow, a lot, but, this does not scare me that much. Knowing that touching the limiter means kill the gas supply, so, the revs would not go to much over 7’800 rpm.
And a total of 56’000 revs, at a little tiny bit over 7’800 means something like 7 minutes of the engine running at “full rev” ..over the total current life time of the engine, ..IMO, this is not that much !

Do you agree with my "path" ?

Now, about R2, I would prefer to “see” 0, but, the reading says 4 !
I’m convinced that any miss shift would lead to a lot more than 4 revolutions !
How can we get 4 rev on R2 ?? Frankly, I do not understand.
Can this be a glitch somewhere ?
This is strange to me, but not really scary.

Any idea ??

By the way, let's put a photo to this post, to illustrate the "data" ! :

San Rensho

The over revs are usually referred to in terms of ignitions, not rotations. If its ignitions, then 4 ignitions is a little over 1 revolution. Could have been a money shift that just barely got into the range 2 ignitions before the engine braking got it back down to the 1 range. I wouldn't be too concerned if it happened a while ago.

In any event, the ignitions records show the owner drove it like he stole it, which these cars can handle, assuming the car was well maintained. If the owner didn't keep up with oil changes or ran it hard with a cooling problem, then there could be consequences.

GVA-SFO

Thanks San Rensho,

First, this is my mistake, you are 100% right, all numbers above are Ignitions, ..not Revolutions like I wrote. Sorry for that.
So, the revolutions are simply twice the ignitions, ..as it is a 4 strokes engine !
I agree, 56'000 ignitions, this is a lot, as this means 112'000 revolutions, or, at around 7'800 rpm, ..this is about 15 minutes of engine time !
(On this car, I read that total the engine time is around 6'000 hours.)

But, still, it looks like the driver was only shifting, ..when power was is lost !

Now, about the four R2 ignitions, (8 revolutions), this is strange.
As you said, it may be a miss shift that has been avoided at the last "minute" ..by a fast "reclutch" !

Well, about the "R1", I still have on memory, the 1967 Monza records, where a 911R (001R) was driven for 96 hours non stop, and they made more than 200 km/h in average. That car had a gearbox with no 4th gear, ..but two 5th gear internal, as fears was that the 5th gear could wear out ! (after each relay, drivers would talk and use the "other" 5th gear !
They made it, ..with 96 hours very near than the red line and end up with a good engine still !

Macster

The over rev counters represent considerable risk avoidance to Porsche. It uses these to deny engine warranty claims arising from abuse/misuse. What the numbers actually mean, what seeming nonsense or improbable non-zero values in the higher ranges mean or don't mean no one outside of Porsche knows.

The numbers may not be what they seem. Does this mean the engine has *not* experienced 56,000 range 1 ignitions and 4 range 2 ignitions? Maybe. Maybe not.

Assuming the numbers mean what they appear to mean 4 range 2 over revs is not that bad. If the event time is in the distant past -- the techs tell me they like to see at least an hour of engine run time after the last over rev -- and the engine shows no signs of any issues from a longish -- 15 mile -- test ride and a longish -- 15 mile -- test drive the over revs mean nothing other than the previous owner (or owners) like to hit the rev limiter.

Provided the event time of those 4 range 2 over revs is in the past I do not see anything in the over rev numbers that would put me off of this car.

How does the engine sound cold, idling to nearly warm, and on the road? How does the engine run?

GVA-SFO

Thanks Macster,
I should add, that I just realized (with the "help" of someone), that one of my computation above is very wrong !
i.e.: A Porsche is a 6 cylinders engine, ..not a one cylinder engine !!
So, 1 ignition is NOT 2 revolutions (true on one cylinder 4 strokes), but, 6 ignitions means 2 revolutions on a six cylinders.
Or, 56'000 "R1" ignitions should mean about 19'000 revolutions, or at about 7'800 rpm, this is about 2.5 minutes of engine life.
As you you wrote: "I do not see anything in the over rev numbers that would put me off of this car."
I agree with your feeling.

Macster

Be sure you do not focus too much of your time/attention on the over rev counter to the exclusion of giving the entire car a thorough check out. The most benign over rev counter readings in the world still requires you visit the car and give the engine a listen and the car a thorough test.

That the over revs are not deal killing scary is just one item to check off on a big check list of things to well check when looking at a used car.

GVA-SFO

I fully agree with you, but I think it is one point (the over revs) that is not often seen in the "checks before buying", while I think, it is one of many points that must be checked.

Macster

The PPI is expected to include, among other things, a read out of the DME over rev counters, the event time stamps, and the total engine run time. At least this is assumed to be included but it never hurts to ask beforehand.

GVA-SFO

Even after a not so fun "experian car report" and after that good amount of R1, ..after spending time underneath the car, taking the oil filter (by surprise) apart (to find it virgin, with no piece of metal at all), looking where I felt I should, then going back home, sleeping over it, ..Today, I bought it !
I need now to "LNize it" (IMS), and while in that spot, will also do the RMS.
Now, I'm in the Boxster Chapter for good

sjfehr

Looks to me like this car was driven very hard- that's a likely indication significant time was spent on the rev limiter (a typical practice on the track and in autocross when max speeds in some sections would top out *just* above a gear limit), 2.4 minutes at the rev limiter if my math's right. That's not necessarily a bad thing with a Porsche; these cars were designed for it. IMS failures, especially, are statistically far less likely to occur on cars that have been pushed hard than on babied garage queens. If that's the only thing the PPI found, you may be able to negotiate down for it, but I wouldn't let it stop you from buying the car.

GVA-SFO

Yes, driven hard, and, guess what, I'm going to show up on some autocrosses & track days.
(I bought it in good part for that.)
It is true, that even on tracks, where I have to admitt that I did "touched" the limiter (not with this car) more than once, this is not a very good habit. You can do good lap times, shifting earlier to the limiter !
Note, to give you some taste, ..this given Boxster has already PSS9 on each corner !

GVA-SFO

Now, despite the strange “R” reports, and ever more, after a Carfax report that was not looking like the one of an “immaculate car !! ..I bough it and just got it.
This afternoon, I did a first "tour", i.e.: for the ones that know the San Francisco Bay area, on a very good curvy drive on the "84" : Woodside - "Alice's restaurant" - La Honda and back, ..this was great : the return to real motoring life.
I would say, having the engine at the right place, and a very firm suspension setting, the Boxster feels better than the 996C4 (cab) that I had for long time (2002 to 2013). OK, it lacks some juice, the difference with the 996 gen 2 (Variocam plus) 320hp engine and the 2001 Boxster S is important, but, the Boxster is more agile, and you do not have the weight on the back that you have to balance with the exact right timing in order to feel that you are in the right line !
Now, I just have to find some magic juice, ..to make it more spicy !
..And change these awful Hankook, (well, the 4 are brand new, so ??) that did already show their limit already one time to me today !!!, against something that is more "sticky" (Nitto NT01 or Yoko A048 or Toyo R888.. or, even better, may be, later : Hoosier ??), will see.
About "semi sticky" tires, what are your comments about Nitto v.s. Yoko v.s. Toyo ??? Does one of these get the lead ?

It is funny because I never had these kind of feeling with any of my 911's, probably to keep them as a good daily. Now that the Panamera 4S plays this role so well, I will go for having a wild horse ..just for the fun !

A photo, arrival of the animal that has 56’000 R1 ignitions, this morning :



By the way, to keep it street legal, i.e.: to pass smog, etc.., I removed the pretty brand new direct (first cat bypass) headers, that are powder coated and thermal bands applied on them. I want to sell them (I will be also on streets, so, I want to keep the cats), and keep the car "silent" too.
If any of you are interested on these headers, send me a PM, I will take some pictures. (Note that they are relatively easy to install, i.e.: direct fit.)

GVA-SFO

I feel it is interesting to re-read today what Excellence magazine (Mr. Aaron Jenkins) was writing back in October 2011 :

GVA-SFO

I have not done a lot of miles yet with the Boxster, but there is no doubt that the feeling is very different than a 911 (my last one was a 996 C4, and this, ..for 11 years !)
The fact that the engine is at the right place makes a huge difference.
Sure, I miss some juice, (..or I carry too much weight !)
But, I’m not going to strip it down. Sure, I will try to remove some “big chunks”, i.e.: swapping the lead battery to a Lion, and most probably remove the spare wheel with the tool box, ..which should be OK, if you carry a cell phone and an AAA card on your pocket. I will also exchange the OEM seats to light sport bucket seats (Sparco, that are already in the garage !)
I think, that I may save about 100lbs, will see.
But, the weight is still going to be “significative” ! (2’855 less about 100, should leave me with about 2’750 lbs (I hope !), or about 1’250kg, ..still an heavy load for 250 ponies !
I have 30 years of 911 as daily, but, I can mention that 99% of my track time, was with different Lotus Exige, (all of them tuned by an excellent Swiss specialist named Bemani, see www.bemani.ch). (About 910kg, (2’000lbs), for 285 hp)
So, for sure, this Boxster is not going to be “feather light” like the Exige are, ..but still, it is nicer than my previous 996 !


Here are some pictures of the animal (the “King of R1” !), as it is today :
(PSS9 on each corner, GT3 type adjustable control arms on the front, new pads, new rotors, new tires, ..that I will change against Nitto NT01 soon).
(Also, new roof, new clutch, ..but, still the OEM IMSB !!)







The rims are 18” O.Z. Alleggerita HLT, anthracite painted:



Inside, I have a small NR>G steering Wheel, with a NR>G quick remove, but I will remove it to go back to original, as, I’m waiting for the return of it, ..covered in Alcantara, together with shift **** and e-brake handle.



If any of you is interested at the pair NR>G SW+quick release, let me know:

GVA-SFO

..When I see "that", I'm asking myself if this is not ..what !!!!!



(Not about the color, ..but for the little G, T, and S, ..after the Boxster emblem !!!)

This makes me thinking :
Anyone interested in a 01 white Boxster S, ..with a lot of R1 ??
..but, new wheels, new tires, new brakes, new rotors, new roof, new... ?