whistler80

I've read a few general articles about how car manufacturers are harvesting much more data from your car what with all the extra sensors, apps etc. Does anyone know specifically what Porsche do or is it just too confidential for them to reveal. Can you opt out of them using your data at any point or at least selling it on? VW are supposedly starting to install ChatGBT in vehicles soon, which implies always-on microphones. Don't like the sound of that. Do Cayennes or any Porsche vehicles have telematics - ie vehicle has it's own cellular data plan separate from drivers smartphone which transmits data?

ThomasWShea

i got a privacy card w my car u can fill it out and send it in. let me see if i can find it. if i do i will post a pic of it.

ThomasWShea

slow, but as promised @whistler80

whistler80

Thanks not sure I got that here in the UK, we have quite strict data laws but I guess you sign it all away when you purchase the vehicle in the small print and then have to go some lengths to opt out. I wonder what stuff doesn't work if you do opt out? Everything you do, every trip you make, how you drive, it's all stored somewhere and whilst the information is probably not used specifically for you it's only a short step before insurers for instance can be sold this information and then that affects your premium.

ThomasWShea

one individual reported their insurance went up because of the driving data porsche reported on his vehicle. that was here in the US. apparently the data was available somehow. the ins. got ahold of it. if that is true, that is scary.

rdboxster

I completed the do not sell my info privacy on my Porsche. I couldn’t find any place that Porsche was one of the manufacturers selling to Lexis/Nexis but I think VW maybe is. You can order a report on the information that has been shared with Lexi’s/Nexis; https://risk.lexisnexis.com/consumer...ccess-policies. Corrected link

i386_64

We have something called 'blackbox' in the UK. Some insurance providers install that thing into the car to give you a cheaper insurance quote.

If that's true, our vehicles would effectively have a factory installed blackbox from the beginning. I don't think they can share your driving data with the insurance providers, at least without your consent. Horrible, just horrible.

ThomasWShea

it was posted here on this forum, i cannot find the post now, i must not be searching for the right key words. it would have been after Nov 10th when I bought my car.

whistler80

This is the article, it's behind a soft paywall

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...-side-driving/

Extract:Three months ago, when American motorist Romeo Chicco was trying to renew his car insurance, he discovered his vehicle had been spying on him.

Worse still, it had passed on his information to insurance providers, which were now seeking to nearly double his premium.

“[Chicco] felt extremely frustrated and shocked by the entire situation,” says a class action lawsuit filed on his behalf in Florida.

“He would not have even bought the Cadillac vehicle to begin with had he known of this grave invasion of privacy.”

The suit seeks damages from Cadillac owner General Motors and data analytics company LexisNexis, which bought and sold Chicco’s data. The case has thrown a spotlight on how manufacturers are looking to monetise the wealth of data generated by the modern car.

Harvesting this type of information – known as telematics – is not a new development: many consumers will already be familiar with “black box” devices offered by some insurance companies as a way for drivers to secure lower premiums.

However, as the internet-connected car becomes the norm, most vehicles now come equipped with this technology built in. That is prompting battles around the world about how the data can be used and who should get access.

“Manufacturers have actually got reams and reams of data but, frankly, do very little with it at the moment,” says Edmund King, president of the AA.

“Our view is that drivers should have the right to say how, where and when that information is used.”

The sheer amount of data hoovered up by the modern car is mindboggling in its variety.

Many now record the vehicle’s position every few minutes, the number of times seatbelts tighten because of harsh braking, the destinations punched into the navigation system and even what connecting forms of transport a driver uses, among a plethora of other data points, according to a study by the Brussels-based Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA).

Some companies, including the AA and rival roadside assistance provider the RAC, want to use the wealth of technical information generated, such as engine diagnostics and tyre pressures, to detect car problems early on, so they cost less to fix.

But it’s not just the vehicle that is under the microscope: the data can also tell you about the personal driving style of its owner, such as whether they regularly break the speed limit or have a tendency to accelerate and brake sharply.

In the US, the way this data has been collected and used – allegedly without the consent of some drivers – has exposed the dark side of telematics.

Earlier this month, the New York Times revealed how Kenn Dahl, the owner of a software company near Seattle, was told the cost of insuring his Chevrolet Bolt would have to rise by more than 20pc because of the information picked up by his car. Like Chicco, Dahl says he signed up to a “smart driver” service, promoted as a way to help motorists improve their driving, which handed over his data to LexisNexis without his knowledge.

LexisNexis then used the information to compile a 258-page “consumer disclosure report” – half of which was dedicated to a detailed breakdown of every time he or his wife had driven their car in the past six months.

Over 640 journeys, the vehicle had noted their start and finish times, mileage, speeds travelled and instances of sudden braking or acceleration.

Insurers then used this to calculate a more personalised – and higher – premium for Dahl’s Bolt.

A spokesman for LexisNexis said insurance costs are based on “many factors” and argued that telematics can be “extremely valuable in helping consumers improve their driving and lower their risk”. General Motors has said it is reviewing Chicco’s complaint but pointed out that its driver services are optional.

In the UK, car makers insist a repeat of these American cases could never happen because of strict GDPR data rules. These mean customers must explicitly agree to share their information with insurers, meaning drivers cannot claim they were unwittingly duped.

ThomasWShea

Thanks for this link I also submitted for my information to be suppressed via that link in addition to mailing in the privacy card.

i wish the U.S. would stand up an opt in only law. it is unethical to bury what is going on behind pages and pages of detail that common person will never read. and if they did read it, it would not be plainly understandable.

rdboxster

I don’t think this was not widely known before the NYT article in early March. Agree the default should be opted out of sharing like is mentioned above in the UK. This thread reminded me to order the Lexi/Nexis report. We’ll see if Porsche is reporting anything to them.