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- One owner who is an older gentleman and has kept absolutely no service records. Only documentation he has is the original sales form from '98. The shop who services his car knows him well and is working on making a list of his services, but they say he hasn't been there in a few years and will take some time to find the old records. Original steering wheel was black and would be included in the sale.
- One accident. The owner reports he was in a fender bender and replaced the front and rear bumpers. This was about 10 years ago. It is documented on Carfax.
- No smoke on cold start. Idles fine. Handles well on test drive. Haven't done PPI yet. Would def have this done if I continue to pursue the car. Based on my own inspection and the lack of any recent service, I think it needs EVERYTHING serviced (new tires, brake flush, valve adjust, engine and trans oil changes, prob needs suspension overhaul as it is all original).
Assuming PPI confirms a healthy engine and no evidence of structural damage from the previous accident, where's a good starting point for an offer on this car? Would not be a collector car. Would want it to be more of a fun weekend cruiser. Fix it up and drive it as much as possible. Hagerty has a #4 car at $63k and #3 at $93k. I would think the car needs somewhere between 10-20k of work. There are a few red flags and friends have said to move on. Will likely keep looking, but wondering what a reasonable offer would be IF I decide to go after this car? Is somewhere around 65k a good starting point?
I'd offer $50K to start and creep up from there. I would be very surprised if this car needs a whopping $10K to sort out, unless an engine rebuild is needed. As it sits, I think this is a $55K-$65K car, as the accident and an all red interior detract from value.
Valves aren’t adjusted on 993s. Top end is always a possibility with these cars, but odds are probably against it.
There is a difference between what the car *needs* and what it would benefit from.
It’s worth spending the extra to get the car tip top. My car runs much better after a full refresh. Sounds like the prior owner didn’t really go the extra mile, so all that would be on you. Engine refresh plus suspension work, etc. etc. will add up. Throw in a clutch and you are well over $10k.
I’ll add this too - before you buy, make sure the car is capable of an alignment since it had the accident. You can replace/repair anything but a tweaked frame could be a nightmare if you can’t get the thing to align properly.
The deferred maintenance is not such a big deal - at least you know that things will be done right. But clearly you’ll need to get a discount for the accident. $65k is very fair, but I’d probably go lower to start.
Valves aren’t adjusted on 993s. Top end is always a possibility with these cars, but odds are probably against it.
There is a difference between what the car *needs* and what it would benefit from.
It’s worth spending the extra to get the car tip top. My car runs much better after a full refresh. Sounds like the prior owner didn’t really go the extra mile, so all that would be on you. Engine refresh plus suspension work, etc. etc. will add up. Throw in a clutch and you are well over $10k.
I’ll add this too - before you buy, make sure the car is capable of an alignment since it had the accident. You can replace/repair anything but a tweaked frame could be a nightmare if you can’t get the thing to align properly.
The deferred maintenance is not such a big deal - at least you know that things will be done right. But clearly you’ll need to get a discount for the accident. $65k is very fair, but I’d probably go lower to start.
Hydraulic lifters, hence no need to valve adjustment. Obviously, I need to do more homework on 993s!
Your point about what the car needs and what it would benefit from is well taken. I'd definitely lean towards taking care of more things up front.
I'd offer $50K to start and creep up from there. I would be very surprised if this car needs a whopping $10K to sort out, unless an engine rebuild is needed. As it sits, I think this is a $55K-$65K car, as the accident and an all red interior detract from value.
Good luck
At 50, there would certainly be enough left over to take care of some of the service items. 😁.
The red is definitely a little overwhelming in the picture, but in person, I actually liked it.
Valves aren’t adjusted on 993s. Top end is always a possibility with these cars, but odds are probably against it.
There is a difference between what the car *needs* and what it would benefit from.
It’s worth spending the extra to get the car tip top. My car runs much better after a full refresh. Sounds like the prior owner didn’t really go the extra mile, so all that would be on you. Engine refresh plus suspension work, etc. etc. will add up. Throw in a clutch and you are well over $10k.
I’ll add this too - before you buy, make sure the car is capable of an alignment since it had the accident. You can replace/repair anything but a tweaked frame could be a nightmare if you can’t get the thing to align properly.
The deferred maintenance is not such a big deal - at least you know that things will be done right. But clearly you’ll need to get a discount for the accident. $65k is very fair, but I’d probably go lower to start.
I went full throttle and refreshed almost everything short of a top end in addition to the upgrades. It ended up being around $20k when it’s all said and done. Car drives amazing, as it should, but I would feel like a nut advising people to do what I did (although I have zero regrets!)
At $50k it is a good deal. A year ago I paid $65k for a 96 c4s with 70k miles and factory-equipped hardback sport seats -- so about $60k for the car if it had regular seats. Now, I was looking for a specific color or two, but I don't think I overpaid for what the market was then. You can go through the auction results on bringatrailer to get an idea of actual sales prices. Suspensions have the hidden extra cost of 4-wheel alignment, don't forget. Many run from a car with an accident. If minor and/or repaired correctly, it may effect re-sale but not your enjoyment of the car. Good luck.
Here are sales prices for narrow and widebody 993's from the last 18 mo you may find useful. Prices "seem" to be coming down going by the BaT sales and the number of RNM's but not enough data points yet to make a solid conclusion on that.
I'd offer $50K to start and creep up from there. I would be very surprised if this car needs a whopping $10K to sort out, unless an engine rebuild is needed. As it sits, I think this is a $55K-$65K car, as the accident and an all red interior detract from value.
Good luck
The guy has not been at the shop for a few years does not sound cheap. My "all original time capsule" 51K mile 964 C4 needs approx $10K of work when all said and done. Say this 3C4S needs brake and clutch work with new plugs and wires plus fluids to reset baseline. That work done at a shop is $5K+.
Most of my work is going to be DIY. Parts just wear out or time out. Granted $3K of that is "body shop clean up" from an authorized Porsche collision center. Car will be a 9.5/10...
Here are sales prices for narrow and widebody 993's from the last 18 mo you may find useful. Prices "seem" to be coming down going by the BaT sales and the number of RNM's but not enough data points yet to make a solid conclusion on that.
I think air cooled values are softening as a whole.
Bill- Was that your White 993 on BaT recently that went RNM? Very surprised it didn't go higher- beautiful car. Did you end up taking it off the market?
07-18-2019, 09:42 PM
Possible 98 993 C4s purchase
