Antigravity

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to take a moment to introduce our company for those who have not come across us yet. We are Antigravity Lithium-Ion Batteries, and have recently signed on as Sponsors.

Lithium-Ion is fast becoming a great alternative to the heavy Lead/Acid Starter Battery. But being a newer technology there is often misinformation and questions regarding lithium-ion batteries in Cars. We are here to answer any questions you might have about Lithium-Ion. So feel free to ask how our products compare to competitors in the market, about the safety of Lithium-Ion or whatever. The goal with this post is to educate those who are interested in a factual manner.

I'll start off with some basics...

ADVANTAGES

1) They weigh up to 70% less than a similar size Lead/Acid battery and that can save about 30 to 50 lbs (depending on the vehicle's battery size). This is absolutely the most cost-effective weight reducing product on the Market. For example our Antigravity Batteries RS-30 Lithium-Ion battery weighs 11 pounds, and is 35 lbs lighter than the H6/Group 48 battery found in most 911s, Caymans, Boxters etc. To lose 35 lbs of weight using Carbon Fiber, Titanium, or other exotic materials would be over $100k. An exhaust system is thousands of dollars to lose a max of 15 pounds. Yet our Lithium Battery is a fraction of those costs. In Performance/Race Cars this equates to shorter braking distances, better acceleration, and better handling… these are all feature that large weight loss will achieve.
2) Lithium-Ion offer significantly higher Cranking Power than Lead/Acid. In similar sized batteries this means almost twice the cranking power. This means a higher voltage at start up is kept, which means a better start. Additionally this means you can use even a smaller battery in Performance or Race Cars and still easily start the Car.
3) The life cycle of the Lithium Battery can be twice that of Lead/Acid. Lithium Cells (depending on quality) are rated at 2000-2500 cycles. Lead/Acid is rated at 1000 cycles. But additionally a product like our RS-30 has features built into the battery that protect it from the main causes that damage Lead/Acid Batteries such as over-discharge. With our particular RS-30 battery it puts itself to SLEEP if it notices it will soon be over-discharged, yet saves enough reserve energy to RE-START the Car even 6 months after it went to sleep. Simply press the RE-START button on top of the battery and start the car.

DIS-ADVANTAGES

1) In extremely cold weather close to freezing Lithium has more resistance and on the initial start attempts will be more sluggish. But they will gain power after the cells "self-warm" from current discharge.
2) For the roughly same physical size Lead/Acid offer more Amp Hour Capacity. This is beneficial for vehicles like SUVs or when there are a lot of electronics or aftermarket theft alarms that create a higher parasitic drain on the battery. For vehicles like this is it best to stick with Lead/Acid
3) Using the correct External Battery Charger. Lithium performs fine being charged by the vehicles system. But when charged by a stand-alone charger you should use a Lithium Specific Charger/Maintainer because Lead/Acid Charger can go into "De-sulfate" modes which spike voltages to Lithium Battery, also Lead/Acid Chargers can over-cycle a Lithium Battery because Lithium Battery does not have a high self-discharge rate like Lead/Acid. So getting a new Charger if you use one could be a $60 dollar added cost.
4) Lithium is more expensive initially to buy than Lead/Acid. Due to the higher cost of the Lithium Cells and a lower scale of manufacturing Lithium does have a higher price point . About twice the cost and more. But given the Benefits and over double the life cycle this can be made back in terms of a longer life and better performance overall. So the initial buy-in is more but over the life span a lithium battery becomes a better investment. This will also depend on the quality of the Lithium battery you buy.

Anyway, if you have any questions please feel free to ask. Whether it’s about a battery for World-Class racing or your daily driver performance cars or bikes. Our intention is to give you the information you need to make the most informed, best educated decision on this newer technology.
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Ratchet1025

Hey, thanks for taking the time to post. I see that these are popular with the 997 and up crowd. Do you know if they fit the Rennline kit....EL30.35 Rennline Battery Mount Kit Odyssey 925- Porsche 911/930/912/996/997/Boxster/Cayman/991 except 1969-73 ?

ion_berkley

So who's going to break the news to Scott that if that $700 battery "goes to sleep" you can't actually open the hood anymore to press that re-start button........

Silk

Blue Chip

I run a LiFE battery in my car (actually, I run 2 of them together). The weight savings is significant - a combined 7# versus 44# ish. I keep the car on a maintainer so it's really never an issue... good way to save weight if it really matters.

Sula

In a good percentage of the US - including where I live (PA) - "extremely cold" isn't close to freezing: it's well below that.

Does this mean I should have some way of warming the battery prior to attempting to start?

JohnCA58

Most times just turning on the headlights will warm up the battery.

Antigravity

Good morning everyone and thank you the feedback and the questions.

based on the specs it looks like this kit is only specifically for the Odyssey battery, so no go there. But it's more likely you would need the RS-30 adapter kit which would use the stock Porsche battery mounts to secure as typically there are mounts that will fit a group 48/H6 battery size.
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...rs30-tray-kit/
Correct, the difference here is that your RS-30 would avoid being put into a state of over discharge (under 10.5v) which is harmful to any battery whether it be lead/acid or lithium. You can always use something like one of our Microstarts to energize those terminals and we are also working on a remote solution for these applications that would allow you to use a key fob to engage the restart without directly accessing the button.

Now about your cold weather starting...this is a good point..Lithium batteries do develop a higher resistance in very cold weather creating a more slugging start, and that effect is more pronounced when the battery is smaller without sufficient amp hour capacity and power to overcome that effect. Such as in a smaller motorcycle battery. But when we are talking a battery like the RS-30 that has 30 amp hours of real lithium battery capacity. That gives you much more overhead in terms of the power available even in cold weather. Essentially turning your ignition on(without turning over) or turning your lights on for a few minutes will start to self warm the cells. Also consider the RS 30 is a "Sports Car" and "Hi-Performance" Vehicle battery, it is intended to be used in climates where you drive a Sports Car or a Race Car normally... even in 30° weather it would have no problem.... But I want to make clear we do not intend this battery for freezing climes where snow and ice are present. Its for moderate climates, and is not its best application to be used for operation in weather where you would not drive your Sports Car. Yes I know some of you drive in the snow... it can handle that... we've went multiple times to Big Bear CA in well below 30 degree weather with an RS-30 in our Toyota Tacoma this year. No problem.. but again that's not where we intend the battery to be used regularly.

Hopefully that helps answer your questions but please let us know if you have any others at all!

Ratchet1025

Well, if the Adapter kit fits in the OEM tray then that is a double bonus of being easy to install. I will get out the ruler! Are there any PCA or RL discounts that might apply?

Antigravity

PM sent!!

Antigravity

Oh.... no one has to "break the news" to me about getting the hood open.... I already got the Newspaper smacked into my face. I learned by trial by fire.

I brought the RS home and was utterly excited to put the RS-30 in it and proclaim to the world how cool it was. So, I put the battery in the Car, patted myself on the back and how easy it was, shut the hood, Put the key in the ignition to fire it up..... and nothing.... then I try pulling the key out and it woouldn't come out.... then with a rising fear boarding on panic (since I just spent a freaking fortune on my first Porsche) I realized I forgot to turn "ON" the battery. So I ran into the house almost vomiting... go on Rennlist and start searching how to open the hood. Freaking saved my butt, thanks to the folks on here. Learned about how you have to energize the system at the fuse block... and said to myself... this is LAME way to have to do this. So I developed a kit to rectify that situation, I made a wire harness of 8awg Silicone wire going from the battery to the edge of the hood that allow you to energize the Cars system with one of our MICRO-STARTS or another brand of the Mini-Jump Starters... You just plug a MICRO-START into this harness and then you don't have to go to the fuse box, just click your key, or the door switch to open the frunk. And if you have a lead Acid Battery or other battery you can also jump start the car from that Harness.... That should be available in about 5-6 weeks.

We are also coming out with a Bluetooth Battery Tracker that will tell you if your battery is low from your Phone and also test the starting ability of the battery and check your Alternator is Charging. It also gives you a realtime reading of the battery voltage and it logs it for as long as the app is open. And each day if you walk by the car you will get a update of what the voltage is at even if you don't drive the car or have the App on. I just sends and alert if you get within a bluetooth distance of the car.... about 30 ft.

Silk

Antigravity

A couple points here...

1- Yes it would be a good idea to have a wake up button that can be remote... that is already scheduled in our next models coming out next year. We are testing Bluetooth and also just a remote hardwire. But with a hardwire not many will want to bring it into the car. No one wants to touch or mess with going through the firewall on a expensive car.. but we have a cool little very flat push button we are developing. And the bluetooth is super cool, but there are potential problems with Bluetooth...like what if you forgot your phone... or it breaks inside the battery. Anyway that is for further testing...should be out mid 2019 potentially sooner.

2- The address the point about the Cigarette lighter port with a MICRO-START plugged into... That is NOT AN OPTION by any means. I stress that because I don't want anyone trying it either. You could do damage to your electrical system. I've already looked into that when developing the idea for the Harness. I went to the Porsche Tech at the Dealer where I bought the car and we broke out the wiring schematics for the car... We found it is a very thin wire gauge from the cig lighter/charging port, so it cannot handle any high current, and by high current I would even be afraid to put 5 amps into that port. Secondarily, that wiring from the Charging port DOES NOT energize the entire Car it only goes to certain areas of the car... like the battery for charging. So it does not allow the Cars Frunk Switch to be operated if you put 12v to this port. Yes you can charge the battery from this port, and when the battery is charged it will then operate the Frunk switch, but that takes time. So after seeing the wiring diagrams we realized you can't energize the Cars system through that Charging Port, and yes I even tested a 12v source into the port to see if the frunk button would operate. It did not work.

3- If you notice when you pull the frunk switch or use your key.. .there is an audible solid click to release the Frunk... that draws a pulse of about 7-8amps as we tested it... so you need a solid connection and solid current to get that Frunk switch to move... another reason why I wasn't wanting to do anything but a direct connection to the Battery Posts themselves. I want it operating directly from the intended operation point for safety and not being responsible for sending current from an oddball place to the frunk switch. The Harness allows the energy to come from the intended source...the battery posts themselves (with assistance from the MICRO-START).

4- The Alligator Clips connected to the Fuse box is absolutely possible, and what Porsche says to do... but if you've done it, it actually sucks and is a hassle. You have to go in the footwell, and pull out the red buss-bars and connect the Positive clamp to that... then ground to seat bolt , or door latch and put the negative there, and the distance between the two barely works with the mini jump starters. So even if you do this with Jumper Cables it is a hassle and you need an outside 12v source, and remember if you don't have a battery there is no light in the footwell so at night you can't see anything, and even in the day it not so great. With a Harness I just pull out the tip of the harness from the leading edge of the Hood and plug it directly into the MICRO-START and the car is energized.. no clamps needed on the MICRO-START and no hassle connection. It fully energizes the car and I pop the frunk.

5- Also, this Harnesse would also allow a Car to be Jump Started from the Harness. For example say you had a Lead/Acid Battery.... then you could just plug in a MICRO-START and jump start the car from this Harness and never open the Frunk. You can't Jump-Start the RS-30 with this method because it is just asleep so you have to access it to press the RE-START button... but on a Lead/Acid you could jump it and drive away.

Now keep in mind... I fully understand this is not a thing that regularly occurs, but there are MANY posts on Rennlist of this happening. So I just wanted an easier solution. And in the future it will be even easier for the next generation of batteries. I've only ever had it happen that first time I installed the battery, but I don't want my wife to have to do that for any reason, I don't want to crawl down there if I'm ever dressed in my decent cloths or at some event. So it just one of those little things some people may want to have. I always carry a our tiny MICRO-START SPORT (about as smalls as two iphones stacked) in the center console of the RS so I know if I ever do come upon this type of scenario it easy to get in the frunk.

Silver6

I am very interested in the harness option. Glad to see you are moving it forward. Once it is released I am buying that and a MICRO-Start.

Antigravity

Cool, I'll try to get some pictures up after SEMA which is next week... so in about a week. Or if I get some time today I will snap a few shots...