Inrev

Hi everyone, I've been doing DE's for the past 12 years now, started with a 350Z and moved to an R8, Cayman S, GT3, GT4 and now a 991.2 C2S with 2 kid seats in the back. I moved from the GT4 to the C2S because I barely drove my GT4 as I couldn't haul my kids around.

I did DE's this season with the 991.2, and I'm about 1 sec faster around Tremblant than I was with the GT4. The cost of consumables on the other hand, has gone out of control. Tires and brakes alone cost double with the C2S (Ferodo DS11.1). Track tires are impossible to find in 20s except the costly MPSC2 and they last me 3 days at most whereas I could get cheaper tires on the GT4 in 19in lasting 4 days. Brake pads change on the 991.2 after 4 days for all 4 corners whereas the GT4 would last 6-7 front and about 12-13 rears! I'm at the point where, when factoring travel, gas, hotels, consumables and fees I'm getting close to $2k CAD per day which is getting past comfortable. I've been looking for cheaper tire alternatives in this thread https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1102...ack-tires.html but fact is I'm probably at the point of moving to a lighter, safer dedicated track/race car.

This is a world where I'm lost. There are many race cars for sale, with many mods and it's confusing t. I thought about going the Radical route but the open cockpit is a no-no at this point. Maybe when my kids are older... I'm thinking a 944 race car since they're cheap and handle well but I'm worried that coming from my more powerful street cars I will find them slow and boring. I must admit a Cayman interseries car or an older cup car would be nice but it'd be stretching my budget.

I'm not looking to race, at least not next season. I want to go with something visceral, reliable,safe and well sorted out. Anyone care to chime in?

Thanks

paulfdunn

I feel your pain. I have a 997.2 TTS. I quickly realized that you can cut the cost of brake work by about 70% by doing the work yourself. (At least compared to having the work done at my local dealer.) I had taken auto shop in high school, some 35 years ago, but done no auto work since. I watched some videos, worked slowly, and have since: bled my brakes, replaced pads/rotors. That included removing the PCCB and swapping to steel rotors for the track. My car has centerlock wheels, which meant a little more investment in tools. Personally, I wanted to do some work to my car. Just to learn. That was part of the "track" experience I was looking for.

I also see that there are 19" wheels available for your car. So you could change out the rims, and that opens up tire selection a lot, based on a search I did.

Also do not forget that in trading cars, or getting something else, you do lose a lot of money. Sales tax, dealer fees, registration, etc.

Summary: maybe an option is to move to 19" wheels, and do some work yourself....

Inrev

I already do the brake changes myself, recently purchased a Quickjack to make changes easier. 19in wheels are a problem with the 991.2S because of rear axle steering and the additional suspension components that interfere with 19in wheels. I'll do some more searching, perhaps there's a solution! Moving to 19in wheels would definitely hurt a lot less.

brownan

Similar story to you. My main rationale was that I found myself looking for tenths in a street car and one day had an epiphany that that was just dumb in a car without the proper safety equipment. I moved from a 997.2 RS with a bolt-in cage to a fully race prepared 265hp base 2.9 liter Cayman. Never once have I regretted it. Indeed I totaled my first one in a race, walked away with only a bruise, and built an identical one.

My suggestion, depending on budget, would be to find a car that is already built to a class, or to hire one of the good shops to build you a car. Lots of choice out there and people will have lots of opinions on a 944 vs a Spec Boxster vs a GTB1 car (the Interseries you mentioned) versus a whatever (e.g. a nice spec E46). I would build something without too much horsepower and learn to drive a momentum car. You will have to re-learn some stuff but it will be worth it and will make you a better driver all around. Happy to talk move over DM if you like.

Inrev

Thanks, yeah I'm personally a momentum car kinda guy I guess. I'll DM you if I need more information. A Cayman like yours would be a good start for me and it'S probably the platform I'm most familiar with.

breljohn

+1 for a Cayman. I like the GTB1 because fields are bigger if you want to race.
Also, they look super cool with the big wing :-)

3Series

Budget is everything. Sounds like you plan to tow so set a budget and go from there.
But really going with a dedicated track car, tow vehicle and trailer seems like the cost will go beyond replacing consumables on your 991.2. I also don't see how consumables on a 991.2 cost more than a GT4 and I don't see why you think Sport Cup 2's are so expensive compared to all those other cars you mentioned. It seems like the tires on all those other cars are the same/similar size. It's not like you are comparing to a Miata.

Cheap, start with a Miata.
Expensive, go with Radical. The Radical requires engine rebuilds etc... land if you are concerned about costs, that's not the direction to go.

agdamis

wildcat077

A 944 is the perfect momentum car to start racing with and they're relatively cheap to maintain.Check the lap times of the top 944's at
the latest Fall Classic at Tremblant ... they were running low 1:54's which is quite fast ...
They were lapping one second slower in G70 than a guy with a 3.8 liter 993 !

Trust me , you can still scare yourself in a 944 !

PLNewman

Spec Boxster race car gives you a goal to shoot for (PCA's most competitive race class and also accepted in SCCA T3), while allowing you to run safely (full cage and fire protection) in track events. Simple to maintain, inexpensive to operate, cheap to fix (engine $4K, tranny $500). Will force you to improve as a driver. You will lose the thrill of sheer HP acceleration, but you will gain the thrill of eating up higher HP cars under braking). A solid competitive SPB will cost $35K. Anything cheaper will cost you more in the long run.

https://rennlist.com/forums/spec-box...s-it-gone.html

Bill Lehman

All cars should be driven as momentum cars. That said, there are a lot of 987 Caymans for sale with track mods at reasonable prices. Look for a Gen 2, 2009 up. No way a 991 should be faster than a GT4 unless it is a GT3.

jdistefa

Todd Lamb at Altanta Speedwerks (no affiliation other than he is a friend) is selling an excellent SPC (Spec Cayman) race car. Put gas in it and drive. Very similar to what 'brownan' races. But cooler.

PM me if you have general or specific questions and I'm happy to put you in touch with Todd.

As others have suggested, always good to buy a car that fits a class should you chose to go racing or sell the car there's a place for it.

Inrev

Trailer and tow vehicle are, at least to me, a different expense as I can buy them used and not suffer too much depreciation. Same with the right race car.

In terms of consumables here are the tire and brake costs 991.2 vs GT4:

Tires

GT4: RE-71R - $2000 installed, 4 track days: $500 per day
991.2S: MPSC2 - $3000 installed, 3 track days: $1000 per day

Front Brake pads (approx):

GT4: $500 - 7 days: $71 per day
991.2S: $500 - 4 days: $125 per day

Rear pads (approx.)

GT4: $500 - 12 track days: $41 per day
991.2S: $500 - 4 track days: $125 per day

TOTAL:

GT4: $612
991.2S: $1250

Not sure why it's so different in terms of brakes except that I probably didn't brake as much in the GT4, my data suggests I carry more speed in the corners but lose to the Carrera coming out of corners.

Inrev

The 991.2 with the turbo engine hauls *** coming out of corners. While I'm slower coming in, I'm out much faster. Gives me about 10 km/h at the end of the straight in Tremblant. I ran a 1:49.2 on worn tires last I was there, all I was able to manage was a 1:50.2 in the GT4 on new tires, similar conditions.

jdistefa

If you are fussing about tire/brake costs DO NOT even think about "an older cup car".