Carrera T vs Carrera S
10-13-2018, 09:32 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Carrera T vs Carrera S
Apologies if this has already been done, but I haven't seen it...
With all the talk about the merits/demerits of the Carrera T on here, and the prevalent use of the Carrera S as a more worthy choice, I thought I'd spend a little time on the Configurator today. I'm a geek like that. I compared my T build to the closest I could get on an S. We all know the T has many things the Base Carrera can't spec. Even though most detractors just call the T a Base with some marketing hype, I am going to leave that one be. Porsche badged and marketed this car differently (as opposed to just making it a Base option, which many believe they should have) and we'll just accept that. It is different. I personally view it as more of a CS or RS, if spec'd that way (which is way cool in and of itself if you ask me...), and from what I understand Porsche did too. But legalities and trademarks got in the way. And probably a TON of foreseen hue and cry from "the faithful" over "the travesty" of such a move... But I digress.
There are just a few things you can't spec on an S, like cosmetics, Full Buckets/Rear Seat Delete, Lightweight Glass, etc. but it is real close. Additionally, there is one big thing the S has that you can't get on the T from the factory: 50 more ponies and some bigger turbos. This really seems to be the biggest argument used by many why the S is a superior choice. I tried to go with / avoid some of the packages on the S, to keep the costs down, such as the Sport Package or the leather. But in the end, I had to ala carte for the closest fit. Open to some double checking on that, as well as nit picking if you don't agree.
In the end, it winds up being a USD 15,100 difference. Let me say that again... In order to get a comparable S (and that isn't really accurate, as the T has many things the S can't and vice versa) I would have to pay 15K MORE just for 50 more HP or .2 less seconds to 60 mph. Who has bought into marketing hype now? Particularly when I can decide to void my warranty (or wait until it has lapsed...) and spend about 3K on a reliable tune and some goodies and far exceed those HP and Torque figures??? This is also leaving alone some intangibles, such as personal valuations of a less widely produced model vs. another, cool factor of what you can spec vs. what you can't, and the like. Some people don't want to be different and some have to.
Carrera T Build for USD 123,380
Carrera S Build for USD 138,480
My real takeaway from this (beyond just reinforcing my decision...) is the genius of Porsche for what they charge in the Carrera line for mainly engine/transmission changes. I know this is an over simplification... But... Good for them, since we are willing to pay for it and enjoy it and debate it and debate it and debate it... I also came away with a renewed love for the Carrera T Exterior and Interior Packages. What a really, really good deal they turned out to be. All the more so since they look fantastic, IMO.
All of this said, if you are on the fence or in one camp or the other.... Just buy the S. It has to be worth it, right? You wouldn't want to fall prey to some corporate marketing scheme, would you? The T is really just a "Black Edition" with a different coat of paint, yeah? The extra 37 ft-lb of Torque, rear seats, un-bespoke interior and exterior bits, and an on-going badge are totally worth that 15K, right?
Have a great weekend, everyone! Enjoy your cars or the quest for them until you can!
S
With all the talk about the merits/demerits of the Carrera T on here, and the prevalent use of the Carrera S as a more worthy choice, I thought I'd spend a little time on the Configurator today. I'm a geek like that. I compared my T build to the closest I could get on an S. We all know the T has many things the Base Carrera can't spec. Even though most detractors just call the T a Base with some marketing hype, I am going to leave that one be. Porsche badged and marketed this car differently (as opposed to just making it a Base option, which many believe they should have) and we'll just accept that. It is different. I personally view it as more of a CS or RS, if spec'd that way (which is way cool in and of itself if you ask me...), and from what I understand Porsche did too. But legalities and trademarks got in the way. And probably a TON of foreseen hue and cry from "the faithful" over "the travesty" of such a move... But I digress.
There are just a few things you can't spec on an S, like cosmetics, Full Buckets/Rear Seat Delete, Lightweight Glass, etc. but it is real close. Additionally, there is one big thing the S has that you can't get on the T from the factory: 50 more ponies and some bigger turbos. This really seems to be the biggest argument used by many why the S is a superior choice. I tried to go with / avoid some of the packages on the S, to keep the costs down, such as the Sport Package or the leather. But in the end, I had to ala carte for the closest fit. Open to some double checking on that, as well as nit picking if you don't agree.
In the end, it winds up being a USD 15,100 difference. Let me say that again... In order to get a comparable S (and that isn't really accurate, as the T has many things the S can't and vice versa) I would have to pay 15K MORE just for 50 more HP or .2 less seconds to 60 mph. Who has bought into marketing hype now? Particularly when I can decide to void my warranty (or wait until it has lapsed...) and spend about 3K on a reliable tune and some goodies and far exceed those HP and Torque figures??? This is also leaving alone some intangibles, such as personal valuations of a less widely produced model vs. another, cool factor of what you can spec vs. what you can't, and the like. Some people don't want to be different and some have to.
Carrera T Build for USD 123,380
Carrera S Build for USD 138,480
My real takeaway from this (beyond just reinforcing my decision...) is the genius of Porsche for what they charge in the Carrera line for mainly engine/transmission changes. I know this is an over simplification... But... Good for them, since we are willing to pay for it and enjoy it and debate it and debate it and debate it... I also came away with a renewed love for the Carrera T Exterior and Interior Packages. What a really, really good deal they turned out to be. All the more so since they look fantastic, IMO.
All of this said, if you are on the fence or in one camp or the other.... Just buy the S. It has to be worth it, right? You wouldn't want to fall prey to some corporate marketing scheme, would you? The T is really just a "Black Edition" with a different coat of paint, yeah? The extra 37 ft-lb of Torque, rear seats, un-bespoke interior and exterior bits, and an on-going badge are totally worth that 15K, right?
Have a great weekend, everyone! Enjoy your cars or the quest for them until you can!
S
10-13-2018, 10:22 AM
#3
Race Car
Great write up!
I went with the T vs. S. Love my decision and cloth interior.
I went with the T vs. S. Love my decision and cloth interior.
10-13-2018, 10:40 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thanks SS. I think something that is overlooked in these comparisons is the social aspect. How many threads are dedicated to the T dedicated here on Rennlist? Maybe it was Copper that listed a bunch? AND they are active. T buyers are part of a club. It’s not a formal club but the car and it’s uniqueness brings us together. Base, S and GTS are great cars, as has been pointed out numerous times, but they don’t magnetism to bring us together. I really like my car but I also really like being part of the club.
10-13-2018, 10:57 AM
#5
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Are you planning to buy one? Have you looked for an allocation?
10-13-2018, 11:11 AM
#6
I remember doing the compare/contrast before deciding on getting a T. The diff was about $12K. You have to laugh at the comment "Well I'd just go for the S at $3K more" It's asinine comments like this as well as parts bin comments etc from those who have no experience whatsoever with the T that causes me to shake my head.
The S is also something like an inch and a half wider in the rear. So that, brakes that are only better on the track and more power at about $12K more for a comparable build wasn't enough for me to take the S. Granted when I took Euro delivery of mine I was somewhat gentle with it during break in. Still got it up to 140 on the Autobahn (very congested with construction zones these days) drove on Black Forest roads and 4 Alpine passes. I tapped full power of my car less than 5% of the time (after break in) and still driving spirited whenever I could. For me the T handles fantastic and has more than enough power while I was in Germany. Here in the US I don't even need all the power. I think it was Walter Rohrl who said that 350 hp is enough for a street car.
The S is also something like an inch and a half wider in the rear. So that, brakes that are only better on the track and more power at about $12K more for a comparable build wasn't enough for me to take the S. Granted when I took Euro delivery of mine I was somewhat gentle with it during break in. Still got it up to 140 on the Autobahn (very congested with construction zones these days) drove on Black Forest roads and 4 Alpine passes. I tapped full power of my car less than 5% of the time (after break in) and still driving spirited whenever I could. For me the T handles fantastic and has more than enough power while I was in Germany. Here in the US I don't even need all the power. I think it was Walter Rohrl who said that 350 hp is enough for a street car.
10-13-2018, 11:13 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
T’ers think different. Plus some of us are more poor.
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Jeahbladejeah (01-08-2020)
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10-13-2018, 11:23 AM
#8
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Before the T was on the horizon, I chose the C2 over the C2S, and used the $15k saved to more than cover a 16 day four star vacation for two to take European Delivery. I do that again in a heartbeat. If the T was available, I'd have gone that way with an ED.
10-13-2018, 11:24 AM
#9
Honestly, if you are willing to spend $123-136K, I would rather get an GTS with premium package plus and stick with a grand total of $126. I think it is a better value with more bhp, standard sports exhaust, etc
10-13-2018, 11:27 AM
#10
The waiting is brutal though.
10-13-2018, 11:46 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Carrera GTS Build for USD 142,340
I value your opinion, and hope you spec a car just the way you want it and go grab it. I did and am doing so. The T above is mine and should be in my hot little hands in a few weeks. But I'm trying to make sure we keep it real and everyone is on the same, level playing field here, Bro. Thanks...
Last edited by S S; 10-13-2018 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Correcting my ish'es... :-)
10-13-2018, 01:23 PM
#12
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What is the point of this thread? I have read many that are similar, which are usually started by the T folks for what it is worth.
10-13-2018, 01:26 PM
#13
I selected a C4S after configuring/considering/driving the T, C4S and 718. Settled on the 911.
Within the 911 range, each model requires making choices/compromises. I decided what the must-haves were, for me they were AWD, 7M, exterior color and budget.
Ideally I would have purchased a C4, difficulties with allocations this late in the 991.2 model cycle (didn't want a 992, I never buy 1st model run vehicles) ended with a C4S order after my SA offered a more than acceptable discount.
Compromised on the interior but I chose the Sport Package instead. A few other items were specified for a bit of individuality (which pushes the price ever higher). A last visit to the dealer, a change to the Bose system.
Went over budget but that's what happens when you get into these things. In the end, I got 99% of what I wanted.
The final C4S configuration/order really came down to the best fit. Sure the GTS is desirable, but when you factor in your build, the price rises substantially. The extra GTS 30HP was a non-issue as I would have been perfectly happy with the base, and going to the S had already added 50HP to my original C4 choice.
I believe I struck a balance so I'm satisfied and that's what counts. Go through your due diligence and you'll do what needs to be done to make a reasoned decision.
Good luck!
Within the 911 range, each model requires making choices/compromises. I decided what the must-haves were, for me they were AWD, 7M, exterior color and budget.
Ideally I would have purchased a C4, difficulties with allocations this late in the 991.2 model cycle (didn't want a 992, I never buy 1st model run vehicles) ended with a C4S order after my SA offered a more than acceptable discount.
Compromised on the interior but I chose the Sport Package instead. A few other items were specified for a bit of individuality (which pushes the price ever higher). A last visit to the dealer, a change to the Bose system.
Went over budget but that's what happens when you get into these things. In the end, I got 99% of what I wanted.
The final C4S configuration/order really came down to the best fit. Sure the GTS is desirable, but when you factor in your build, the price rises substantially. The extra GTS 30HP was a non-issue as I would have been perfectly happy with the base, and going to the S had already added 50HP to my original C4 choice.
I believe I struck a balance so I'm satisfied and that's what counts. Go through your due diligence and you'll do what needs to be done to make a reasoned decision.
Good luck!
10-13-2018, 02:42 PM
#14
T to S cost comparisons are meaningless because they all depend entirely on the values of the potential purchaser. For example,
At 76, I am one of the oldest members of this forum, and my values are definitely old school. I don't relate to cosmetics or electronics-based performance add-ons. . I do relate to horsepower, torque, large brakes, and mechanical limited slip differentials. My ideas of sports car comfort were developed while driving British roadsters with side curtains and only slightly adjustable seats, etc more than 50 years ago. I do value sunroofs. I have enjoyed them on a number, of cars starting with a VW in 1966.
I currently drive a 2017 991.2S MT stripper with a sunroof as its only extra cost option. Pricing an S like mine, and a T with a sunroof as its only option, on the current configurator, I found a MSRP of $107,500 for the S and $104,500 for the T. For me, 50 additional horsepower and a comparable increase in torque is well worth $3k and I am not interested in any T features, lightweight glass, for example.that the S lacks. This comparison, like all T to S comparisons on the forum, is obviously valid only for me, or very few others, and is of little value to forum members in general.
At 76, I am one of the oldest members of this forum, and my values are definitely old school. I don't relate to cosmetics or electronics-based performance add-ons. . I do relate to horsepower, torque, large brakes, and mechanical limited slip differentials. My ideas of sports car comfort were developed while driving British roadsters with side curtains and only slightly adjustable seats, etc more than 50 years ago. I do value sunroofs. I have enjoyed them on a number, of cars starting with a VW in 1966.
I currently drive a 2017 991.2S MT stripper with a sunroof as its only extra cost option. Pricing an S like mine, and a T with a sunroof as its only option, on the current configurator, I found a MSRP of $107,500 for the S and $104,500 for the T. For me, 50 additional horsepower and a comparable increase in torque is well worth $3k and I am not interested in any T features, lightweight glass, for example.that the S lacks. This comparison, like all T to S comparisons on the forum, is obviously valid only for me, or very few others, and is of little value to forum members in general.
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mqudsi (09-29-2019)
10-13-2018, 02:45 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
T over S for me.
The T with manual, thin glass, etc sounds and feels much better than the S.
For my my it was T or GTS. The cost difference was one factor. The narrow body also had a more compact feel to me.
Both the S and GTS feel heavily boosted. The smaller turbos on the T felt more natural.
The T with manual, thin glass, etc sounds and feels much better than the S.
For my my it was T or GTS. The cost difference was one factor. The narrow body also had a more compact feel to me.
Both the S and GTS feel heavily boosted. The smaller turbos on the T felt more natural.