Trumps tariffs a potential threat?
07-13-2018, 06:32 PM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Trumps tariffs a potential threat?
So I know a lot of guys are worried about Trump’s tariffs on cars that they’ve ordered and have coming in.
I don’t see how tariffs on an existing deal and purchase esspecially ones with down payments made by way of monies or trade-ins can affect a deal Ex Post Facto or another words after the fact. This would amount to a denial or deprivation of property without due process.
The way I see It those who have a deal and a purchase order with a down payment have constructive title to the car and are only waiting delivery which cannot be changed or affected by the government after the fact. I only see tariffs affecting deals that are structured and reached in the future.
Candidly a 20% tariff or tax on my car or these cars which are at least $40,000 or more is a game changer at least for me.
I don’t see how tariffs on an existing deal and purchase esspecially ones with down payments made by way of monies or trade-ins can affect a deal Ex Post Facto or another words after the fact. This would amount to a denial or deprivation of property without due process.
The way I see It those who have a deal and a purchase order with a down payment have constructive title to the car and are only waiting delivery which cannot be changed or affected by the government after the fact. I only see tariffs affecting deals that are structured and reached in the future.
Candidly a 20% tariff or tax on my car or these cars which are at least $40,000 or more is a game changer at least for me.
07-13-2018, 06:41 PM
#2
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Not exactly, if the car is not titled and a purchase order has not been completed, the car has not been sold and changes can happen. Most people have a dealer agreement that is generated, but 99% of the people have not signed the full sales sheet aka that long old school paper and if changes occur then that is reflected accordingly at the time of sale.
People have made “deals” on cars and the tax rate increased, msrp increased, options got delayed or removed, etc and they had to pay the difference or walk away from the deal.
The dealer does not care and is not responsible for any increase in production cost. If you are not comfortable with paying the additional amount due to a change, you can get your deposit back.
So pretty much without an official bill of sale you have nothing. Heck most people with orders in don’t even have a VIN number at this point which just shows you “bought” an allocation which can change at anytime as you have no claim or bill of sale for an exact car yet.
So long story short, until your exact car is here and ready to go, you are subject to any and all changes. The only time things get locked in is when your dealer has officially paid for the car and is now considered theirs which allows them to sell it to you.
People have made “deals” on cars and the tax rate increased, msrp increased, options got delayed or removed, etc and they had to pay the difference or walk away from the deal.
The dealer does not care and is not responsible for any increase in production cost. If you are not comfortable with paying the additional amount due to a change, you can get your deposit back.
So pretty much without an official bill of sale you have nothing. Heck most people with orders in don’t even have a VIN number at this point which just shows you “bought” an allocation which can change at anytime as you have no claim or bill of sale for an exact car yet.
So long story short, until your exact car is here and ready to go, you are subject to any and all changes. The only time things get locked in is when your dealer has officially paid for the car and is now considered theirs which allows them to sell it to you.
07-13-2018, 06:46 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
So I know a lot of guys are worried about Trump’s tariffs on cars that they’ve ordered and have coming in.
I don’t see how tariffs on an existing deal and purchase esspecially ones with down payments made by way of monies or trade-ins can affect a deal Ex Post Facto or another words after the fact. This would amount to a denial or deprivation of property without due process.
The way I see It those who have a deal and a purchase order with a down payment have constructive title to the car and are only waiting delivery which cannot be changed or affected by the government after the fact. I only see tariffs affecting deals that are structured and reached in the future.
Candidly a 20% tariff or tax on my car or these cars which are at least $40,000 or more is a game changer at least for me.
I don’t see how tariffs on an existing deal and purchase esspecially ones with down payments made by way of monies or trade-ins can affect a deal Ex Post Facto or another words after the fact. This would amount to a denial or deprivation of property without due process.
The way I see It those who have a deal and a purchase order with a down payment have constructive title to the car and are only waiting delivery which cannot be changed or affected by the government after the fact. I only see tariffs affecting deals that are structured and reached in the future.
Candidly a 20% tariff or tax on my car or these cars which are at least $40,000 or more is a game changer at least for me.
07-13-2018, 06:48 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Not exactly, if the car is not titled and a purchase order has not been completed, the car has not been sold and changes can happen. Most people have a dealer agreement that is generated, but 99% of the people have not signed the full sales sheet aka that long old school paper and if changes occur then that is reflected accordingly at the time of sale.
People have made “deals” on cars and the tax rate increased, msrp increased, options got delayed or removed, etc and they had to pay the difference or walk away from the deal.
The dealer does not care and is not responsible for any increase in production cost. If you are not comfortable with paying the additional amount due to a change, you can get your deposit back.
So pretty much without an official bill of sale you have nothing. Heck most people with orders in don’t even have a VIN number at this point which just shows you “bought” an allocation which can change at anytime as you have no claim or bill of sale for an exact car yet.
People have made “deals” on cars and the tax rate increased, msrp increased, options got delayed or removed, etc and they had to pay the difference or walk away from the deal.
The dealer does not care and is not responsible for any increase in production cost. If you are not comfortable with paying the additional amount due to a change, you can get your deposit back.
So pretty much without an official bill of sale you have nothing. Heck most people with orders in don’t even have a VIN number at this point which just shows you “bought” an allocation which can change at anytime as you have no claim or bill of sale for an exact car yet.
07-13-2018, 06:49 PM
#5
Above poster is 100% correct .........my current business we had some deals done which were over 1B dollars, and products were being manufactured. Tariffs were approved last year by the US, and we were released from the deal. Went to court for 6 months, and won tarrifs were deemed illegal by the WTO back to original agreement. If you have not taken delivery it’s not a sale.
07-13-2018, 07:23 PM
#6
If you look at the back of the Buyers Order there should be a language that states the dealer is not responsible if the manufacturer increases the price or a price increase out of the dealer’s control. All these contracts are written taking into consideration the dealers best interest as you can imagine.
07-13-2018, 07:30 PM
#7
I lead int'l sales at a consumer goods business. I'm regularly moving product across markets and for the life of me cant believe a vehicle entering the US would be grandfathered into a lower duty rate regardless of when a bill of sale is signed or when the vehicle is registered in CA. I could be wrong.... but am certainly skeptical.
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07-13-2018, 07:40 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
As I posted elsewhere, So far once Trump has decided to apply tariffs, he generally gives a 60-90 day period for the countries affected to negotiate. China has rejected his strong arm tactics and now fully engaged in the trade war. So have Mexico and Canada. I didn't think Trump is ready to engage the EU regarding cars just yet. Apparently there are discussions i.e. drop all tariffs on cars and trucks by both sides. However, the US is reluctant to do so because it has a 20% tariff on all types of truck build outside the US. Trucks are a huge profit maker for the US car manufacturers.
If China capitulates, he'll go full bore against European carmakers. Like many, if the tariff is applied to my car it'll be close to $50,000. I will walk away.
If China capitulates, he'll go full bore against European carmakers. Like many, if the tariff is applied to my car it'll be close to $50,000. I will walk away.
07-13-2018, 07:45 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
07-13-2018, 07:56 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
I will also have to walk away if the tariff comes into play. I have said from the start, which was almost 2 years ago. Until the car is in my driveway, anything can happen. So far, I have been lucky. I have a car at MSRP, I have a configuration and a build date of the 1st week in October. I have already confirmed my vehicle delivery to the Porsche experience in LA for early January , Now we have the possibility of a tariff, all this time and work possibly for nothing. Oh well, it may not make it to my driveway.
07-13-2018, 08:01 PM
#12
Race Director
I think the odds of this tariff actually happening are very low. But f i had a car on order i am not saying it wouldn’t be on my mind, because it would.
07-13-2018, 08:07 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Fortunately, some of us have the .2GT3 to salve our wound should the tariff be imposed. The upside is Porsche used cars will get a boost in value.
One other point. I was told that US Porsche employees are very concerned. The impact on their lives and family will be significant.
One other point. I was told that US Porsche employees are very concerned. The impact on their lives and family will be significant.
07-13-2018, 08:27 PM
#15
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
The impact of tariffs will be to destroy thousands upon thousands of jobs many in red states. He will not get reelected and his popularity will plummet. The economy will go in the chitter and it will be a real chit show.
they still have my.1 RS that I traded in. Wondering whether I should go get it and cancel the deal . My delivery date is October. .
there is no effing way I am going to pay $40,000-$50,000 government tax on top of what I’m paying for the car .
I am not sure if I complete the purchase once we have a Vin number and get a bill of sale from them whether that will protect me from the tariff. Candidly I do not know. . I would hate to go in even deeper and still get hit with a tariff
they still have my.1 RS that I traded in. Wondering whether I should go get it and cancel the deal . My delivery date is October. .
there is no effing way I am going to pay $40,000-$50,000 government tax on top of what I’m paying for the car .
I am not sure if I complete the purchase once we have a Vin number and get a bill of sale from them whether that will protect me from the tariff. Candidly I do not know. . I would hate to go in even deeper and still get hit with a tariff