JAttilaH

Hi guys,

Okay, this is a long post. I wrote it as much to explore things myself as for anyone else to read. Maybe no one here will be patient enough to read it all. That's okay. If you do, though, then I'd love to hear what people have to say.

I'm a long-time BMW owner. I bought my (Z3) M Coupe (S52) new 19 years ago. Recently, though, I've been bitten by the 911 bug.

Many years ago, I was at a Porsche dealer and looked at a 911 up close. I was surprised at how livable it looked. It looked like a car that I could enjoy and be comfortable driving every day, much like I do my M.

Of course, I worried that I'd have to spend a king's ransom to keep it on the road. My wife drove an Audi S4 (B4) for a couple of years. The final straw for that car was when we spent $8,500 on maintenance the last year we had it, and that was without anything serious going wrong! Parts were so much more expensive that BMW parts.

BringATrailer.com is to blame for putting 911s in front of my face again. I saw a couple of mid-to-high mileage 996s that went for around $20K. That set the research wheels in motion. I started reading everything I could. I read that when properly maintained and not abused, a 996 can be a rock-solid daily driver with great longevity. I read that while it's possible to fall into a money-well, you can live a relatively pain-free existance if you stay on top of maintenance and avoid buying a car that doesn't pass a PPI from a good mechanic, and a DME report.

I also read that the most reliable 996 is a turbo. That's the opposite of what I would have expected, but okay. That's when I started researching 996 turbos. I found that the most desirable ones have the X-50 package, or are Turbo S models (2005 only) which have the X-50 equipment by default. I also read that value is severely impacted by Tiptronic and Cabriolet.

Of course, those cars are appreciating rapidly. So the logical thing to think about is getting a non X-50/S 996, or getting a Cabriolet and/or Tiptronic. However, twice in my automotive life I've "settled". When I bought my 300ZX 2+2 back in 1995 (amazing car), I regretted not getting the turbo. If you look at current values, you'll see a HUGE difference in my M Coupe and the S54 M Coupe. Given that, I don't think I should settle for a non X-50/S or a Cabriolet. I had been feeling like maybe the Tiptronic thing was negotiable, but I test drove one.

The car that I test drove was beautiful. It was a '02 charcoal with black interior. It was Tiptronic. The body and interior were immaculate. However, the test drive wasn't very enjoyable.

When the salesman started the car up, it was so loud that it made the dash rattle. NOTHING in my M rattles. The salesman accompanied me, and we went on a route that went through town, then down the freeway and back. He had me accellerate hard on the on-ramp to feel the power. It indeed had lots of power. However, I noticed a few things.

First, the accelerater pedal was very stuff. It took significant effort to really get on it. Although the steering felt very precise, it was heavy. My M only weighs 250lbs less, but it feels like a MUCH lighter car. The 996 has bigger tires, but not THAT much bigger. When we got out and I closed the door, the amount of force I used to close the door would have been excessive on my car. It wasn't even enough to completely latch the door on the 996. I had to reclose it harder.

There were other things that turned me off to this particular car. When we opened the "frunk", the light was sitting on the floor unplugged. I asked the salesman about it, and he said it was because they had to charge the battery and they didn't want the light running when they did. I also noticed that over the deafening sound of the engine idling, you could hear a very loud metalic ticking like a sewing machine. When I asked the salesman if that was normal, he said he would have the service department look at it.

Although I hesitate to judge all 996s from this experience, the Tiptronic was really disappointing. It just felt mushy. I mean, the car was plenty fast, but it wasn't the viceral surge you get from a modern Corvette with an auto when you floor it.

So obviously, that car was a no-go. I still can't get 996s out of my head, though. If anyone has read this far, here are my questions. How much of my experience with this car was normal, and how much was because this car had problems, ill-advised mods, or had just been beaten on? Given the god-awful loud aftermarket exhaust, who knows what other mods had been made.

What is driving a 996tt with a six-speed like? Given how heavy all the other controls seemed to be in this particular car, I worry that if it had been a manual, the clutch would have been massively heavy. Finding a 996tt in the Seattle area to drive has been challenging.

Of course, my other voice is telling me to go for the other uber-collectable and buy a BMW 1M while I can still get one. I'm guessing it would drive like a more modern version of my car. Then, of course, the smartest thing of all is to just keep the car I've loved for the last 19 years for the next 19 years.

Thanks for making it all the way to the end.

Carsly

I've owned 4 BMW's prior to the 996 Turbo - 01 325xi, 05 X3 3.0i, 08 550i and one I'm currently selling, my favorite, an 02 X5 4.6is. I've also owned a 1992 Nissan 300zx twin turbo auto after owning a 93 300zx 2+2 5 speed. Whew!

Sounds like you rode in a poor example. My 01 996 Turbo was a one owner car with 26k miles and I purchased it at a P-dealer two states away placing a deposit the very same day it was listed - that's what it takes with the best examples. Move fast or lose out. It happens to be a black/black Tip. I also test drive a different six speed earlier but found that car, with about 10k more miles, felt much looser. Basically, it probably had a harder life even though it was also a one owner car.

So you'll want to test a few examples. Clean, documented, one or two owner cars are getting harder to find. I almost looked at a cabrio as well even though I wanted a coupe. What I can share is that my Z32TT was a much heavier car, and certainly felt like it when driving. The 996TT is quite light and has more than enough power to get up and go. I don't find the stock exhaust to be loud at all so the example you saw probably had an aftermarket system or had the cats removed. Probably a bit louder than any of my BMW's and louder than the 300zx's but that's to be expected as it's rear-engined. I actually like listening to the engine and exhaust over the (lousy) radio. but hey, I've got the factory tape deck and CD changer - score!

Shop around and be patient. It took me over a year to find the right car. After you see a few examples you'll know which is the right one immediately, even without laying eyes on the car.

If it never feels right, no harm in a 1M or 135is. Or an E46 M3 if you can find a nice one :-)

fpb111

Buy a Camry they have nice light controls and nothing ever breaks..

The Porsches controls are much more masculine.
The steering is heavy, the brakes take more pressure, the throttle is stiff, and the clutch?? the power clutch is so light it takes 20k miles and two clutch packs to get used to it.
Don't even mention cooling pipes. The glued in pipes fly out of the engine if you even drive past a track.
The Porsche tax is astronomical, 400% in some cases. Example SAI pump in Porsche box ~$1,100. The same pump in a Bosch box ~$250. Your dealer will not tell you that.
Maybe a gentle, reliable Acura?

JAttilaH

Except maybe my spirit!

I've actually got my eye on an NSX on BaT. It will probably go into the stratosphere, though. Also, I can't get my mind off those 996s.

911mhawk

Go to Park Place in Bellevue, they had 5 of these there a couple months ago.
Keep your M coupe as they're on the ri$e too.
After 19 years with the coupe, get the 1M and tell me how fun it is so I can regret not buying the orange one for sale here locally.
Plus, that car will be cheap over the long haul compared to the turbo.

JAttilaH

A week ago, they had only one, the one I described in my original post.
Yeah, every time I think about selling, I go for a drive and remember that I can't. Three car garage, though. :-)
Yes, if I'm patient and wait until I find an '05 S, I'm sure I'll be fine. :-)

"02996ttx50

first 996 turbo i drove was also a tip. all that forced me to to do was go to another dealership and grab a pristine factory warrantied x50 02.

everything you will ever read about these being "bulletproof" is true. although, your first trip to a porsche dealership for a normal repair will cause bring you tsuris.

my second 996 turbo just turned over 150k the other day. flawless in performance and happily rock chipped in appearance

caveat emptor and enjoy.

ScottKelly911

First, welcome to RL, it's a fantastic site! BMW's are great and I LOVE the M-coupe! If possible, keep it AND get a 996TT if the TT's truly what you're desiring. I've never driven a Tiptronic 996TT, but I've driven several other 6spd 996TT's besides the one I own. None of them, including mine, ever felt like they had a very stiff accelerator pedal. Maybe the tippy has a stiffer input than the 6spd? Also, none that I've ever driven could ever be described as having heavy steering input. Infact, I'd say quite the opposite. The steering feel of mine is fantastic and among the best of any car I've owned/driven. It's connected and not too heavy, but not too light either. My clutch is surprisingly light and normal braking is also fairly light, while necessitating a heavier input when standing on the pedal when doing harder braking during performance driving. It's almost like it knows to be light in traffic and stop and go. But it knows to be heavy enough to be easy to modulate during spirited driving. I have to say, the 996TT is definitely livable as a daily driver, but honestly, if you use it as a daily, it may lose some of the luster and what makes it special. Luckily I've got a work vehicle as my daily, so every weekend when I get into my 996TT, it becomes a special event. Just the way I want to keep it! As for the exhaust, I personally want a louder exhaust. The stock exhaust is too quiet for a performance car in my opinion, so it definitely sounds like the one you drove had an aftermarket exhaust. I definitely would recommend driving a 6 spd before making any decisions about a Tippy. During my search, I too was contemplating a Tiptronic or Cabrio due to thinking I was going to have to "settle". Luckily I found the one I have. It's higher mileage than I originally wanted, but it checks all of the other boxes that I wanted for the most part and thankfully, I didn't "settle" for a Tiptronic as I know I'd have been unhappy. As for "settling" for a Cabrio, I much prefer the lines of the coupe, but I can understand the allure of a Cabrio for those who want one or don't intend on tracking their car. Comes down to a personal choice. As far as TT's expense in maintenance, it can get expensive if you bring it to a dealer. If you find a good indy, it'll be moderate and if you don't mind DIYing things, it's not too bad. That being said, that's maintenance, if something goes wrong, parts can be very expensive and repair costs can escalate quite quickly. That's where a proper PPI comes in. The good thing is, there's a lot of parts availability with these cars and many things can be found on the used market fairly inexpensively (it's all relative) and if you have access to a lift or at least jackstands, many repairs can be done as DIY. There's also a ton of Youtube tutorials on repairs and a lot of DIY writeups on the forums. In the end, only you can decide whether or not the 996 Turbo is for you. But I just can't imagine you not liking it if you find a nice example. Oh and unless you really want an X50 car for investment purposes, don't be afraid of the non-X50 cars. They've got plenty of power and later if you get bored and you'd like to add power, it's fairly simple to get an extra 100 or so hp which would exceed the X50's power by a lot. If even more hp is craved, you can get about 700hp safely without having to dive into the engine internals. I hope that helps! If you've got any more questions, keep asking away! BTW, you're doing the right thing by doing a lot of research before making the decision. But if/once you do make it, I have a feeling you wont regret it (as long as it's a 6spd, if that's what you really want).

Atrox

Warehouse33.net

JAttilaH do you have a link to the one you test drove?
Welcome to RL!


-Jason

spooltime

You really need to let your intended driving plans dictate the car you buy and how it's equipped. There's a lot of hate on the Tiptronic TT's, but if you live in a highly dense traffic environment like me, trust me, you'd rather be driving a Tip than inching forward in traffic clutching and de-clutching every few feet. OTOH, if it's a weekend only car or are car intended to be used in driver ed, road racing or auto-crossing events, then maybe you get a manual transmission so you think you can be at one with your car. Personally, my "racer" days are behind me, and so are 40+ years of driving a manual transmission car. Been there, done that. A X50 Tip coupe was the perfect blend of form and function for me. Of course, YMMV.

FRUNKenstein

The answer to your dilemma: http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/At...rage-Pro-8-000

$2,345 freight included. I have 2 of them in my 3-car garage. I would have 3 of them, but my wife refuses to park under one as she hits things when she parks (like the side of the door opening and the walls of the garage). Great for detailing your car and very helpful for maintenance (especially with the sliding jack tray that's included). No garage modifications or anchoring required. Uses a plain old 110v power outlet. Takes an afternoon, a couple of buddies and a case of beer to put together yourself. 51 inch M-Coupe height plus 51 inch 996TT height plus 4 1/2 inch runway height means all you need for ceiling height is 9 feet and it will work just fine.

Problem solved. Happy 996TT shopping. You're welcome.

turbodrummer

I don't think your experience is representative of what most of us know as a 996tt. Also a long time BMW owner that made the wholesale switchover - keep searching you will not regret it. With the exception of the wife's cars (both Porsche and BMW) I have always opted for the MT over the Tip/SMG/DCT (would need an entirely other conversation to discuss pro/con of MT vs PDK). I live in a high traffic city but shifting is second nature anymore and not bothersome at all. That said follow your gut on the transmission but don't give up. Find the right one and you will discover that in the stock configuration, it will be more than 3X the car your M is (and I like M cars - except the new generation!).

Dock

ScottKelly911 --> Good post.

Ck986

I think you need to drive a few cars. The one you may have driven may have had boost leaks and/or not properly maintained. All of which would lend to a sub par driving experience. Enjoy the search.