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991.2 track experience

Old 02-18-2018, 09:41 PM
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jnolan
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Default 991.2 track experience

I did a track day at Laguna in the 2017 Carrera GTS that I purchased last November. My other track car is a Backdraft Cobra, much lighter and more powerful but without all the technical wizardy and mid-front engine vs. rear placement. My only other Porsche was a 1973 1/2 911T, which resembles the modern 911 in name and shape only. This was a new and exciting experience for me because it’s always fun to explore a new car at a track but never more so than the car you are also driving daily.

First and foremost, the Carrera GTS hauls a$$. By my 5th session, I was turning 1:41 lap times (for me, that is fast) on street tires and in pretty cold conditions (air and pavement). It is a remarkable engineering achievement that is a lot of fun to drive.

Power:
- plenty and on a short track like Laguna Seca the power is where you need it. I was consistently overpowering other cars coming out of turn 4, 5, 9, 10, and the straight in back of the paddock.
- better tires are in order, I’m not much of a fan of the P Zeroes, which were often overwhelmed but I think that may be an issue of the temperature more than the tires themselves. I’m still going to switch over to MPSC when I can do all 4 corners. The car feels more powerful than the specs would suggest.

Brakes (I have PCCB):
- yeah, another advantage. I could come in hotter and brake harder, and when I watched the GT3 drivers I saw how they put this to good use. There were two GT3 RS and another GT3 drivers that put on a masters class in braking.
- PCCBs are pretty grabby and don’t have the pedal feel that steel brakes offer but they also had zero fade.
- they didn’t squeek before... now they squeek.

Steering (yes, I have RAS):
- still trying to figure out how/what I feel with RAS. I think I like this feature...
- The electric steering does not offer any feedback but it is crisp and also doesn’t fatigue you. I like this feature...
- understeer? What understeer. It is completely absent in this car and even coming in too hot on a turn can be corrected with a quick jab of the throttle. I haven’t driven many modern generation 911s but the old adage about braking hard coming into a turn needs to be re-examined. I found it very manageable to carry a lot of energy into the turn without having the car push.

Suspension:
- Another highlight, it could handle everything I gave it.
- The toughest corners on the suspension at Laguna are 6 and then exiting the Corkscrew. 6 is my favorite part of the track, it has a decent bank to it and it’s easy to get the right line that takes you in to the curb and then track out right up the hill. It also fully compresses the suspension and over the approx 60 laps I did, not once did I feel anything but the urge to giggle on 6. Coming out of the Corkscrew the car is dropping 30 feet and the suspension has to work. I find this more unnerving than the off-camber turn at 3 because the car lifts at the top before dropping but in the GTS I was running that section faster than my other car and with more precision and consistency.
- PDCC is pretty refined. The car stays flat, always.
- The GTS is no lightweight but it definitely drives differently than the weight sticker would suggest.

Interior:
- The Porsche Precision Track app is amazing.
- The chronograph timer is not so much so, wish is had a better stop/lap button on the steering wheel.
- Seating, I have the 18 way seats. Okay, I missed having a bucket seat with a harness but I don’t miss having a bucket seat for the other 99% of the time I am in the car. The seat is a great compromise between performance and comfort but I would like more bolster (cue the old SNL “more cowbell” video). I did mover around too much in this seat and it fatigued me by the end of the day, not to mention that my left shin now has the word “Bose” embossed in it.
- steering wheel, a regular focus of commentary here. I like it. The notches at 9 and 3 are comfortable but keep in mind that my other car has a Moto-Lita classic wood steering wheel in it, which isn’t a steering wheel anyone would describe as comfortable.

Misc:
- I ran with the spoiler up but didn’t get above 120 mph all day so not sure I noticed the effects even though the air was heavy today. This car is a daily driver so I’m not into have a fixed wing on it and the car, as is, feels planted. I guess I’m not sure if I even need to deal with the spoiler, just let the car manage is.
- damn, I wish I had the extended range fuel tank even with the weight penalty. I would happily spring for the lithium ion battery as an offset to the extra fuel load.
- rear tow hook is behind the license plate, which is a bit of a PITA.
- yes, I really do like the alcantara seats. Sue me.

I’ll close by saying the 991.2 with the much-maligned TT 3.0 is an engineering achievement. Porsche deserves credit for delivering a luxury sports car that is more sports car than luxury but not lacking in luxury. There were some much more exotic cars (I’m looking at you McLaren) that had their hands full today and I don’t think this is a case of me being a better driver but rather that the 911 caters to drivers at many levels while something like a 570S requires the driver to bring serious game to extract the full range of performance that car is capable of. I also think the delta between the GTS and the GT3 is a lot less than I would originally thought.



Last edited by jnolan; 02-18-2018 at 10:43 PM.
Old 02-18-2018, 09:48 PM
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subshooter
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Originally Posted by jnolan

I’ll close by saying the 991.2 with the much-maligned TT 3.0 is an engineering achievement.
Fantastic write up. Thank you. Nothing surprised me in your write up but I did want to make two comments. I totally agree that the TT 3.0 is an engineering achievement. I also want to say that the engine is not maligned at all by anybody who knows what is going on..... It is a fantastic engine. Porsche needs to work on the exhaust note a bit (which I am sure they have for their 992) but after 6800 miles on my 2018.....I think it sounds pretty fantastic.
Old 02-18-2018, 09:58 PM
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jnolan
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I neglected to add comments about the PDK. In short, it delivered an experience I would never have imagined and on a track the capabilities of this drivetrain are hard to argue with. Sport+ mode on the street is pretty annoying with the high shift points and aggressive downshifts, but on a track I totally get it now. The shifts are remarkably fast and, more critically, always right for what you are feeling. I get that people want to shift gears but not once did I feel the need to go manual today.

PTV+ is like RAS insofar as not having a equivalent car without that feature to compare against and therefore not knowing how if affects the car. I just don’t know how to know what it is doing and when.
Old 02-18-2018, 10:31 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to do a well-written and comprehensive write-up!
Old 02-18-2018, 10:40 PM
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Excellent write up, but I do have one issue with it....you just made the next 8 weeks or so even more difficult as I wait for mine to show up. Thanks!
Old 02-18-2018, 11:13 PM
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sampelligrino
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Great write-up and recap, enjoyed reading your thoughts

Agree that the engine is a marvel and that the P-Zeros are not great, just did the drive from LA to SF today in my .2 C4 and the engine's power is awesome to feel. Got squirrely with the P-Zeros in high 30/low 40 degree temps during spirited driving on cold roads, want to switch them out too.
Old 02-19-2018, 02:17 AM
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Thanks for the great write up.
Old 02-19-2018, 03:06 AM
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Great writeup!
Old 02-19-2018, 03:42 AM
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Great write-up. Does your car have the sport PASM? And if so, in which mode did you drive it on track.
Old 02-19-2018, 05:13 AM
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Great write up - good to see you enjoyed the day - hopefully you didn't collect to many rubber battle scars. You'll enjoy the switch to MPSC2 N1.

I really like the duality of this car - sleeper one minute, ballistic missile the next
Old 02-19-2018, 06:26 AM
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The GTS has the potential to run with the 991.2 GT3 with some modification, and I'm not saying that to slag the GT3 off, it certainly is a superior car on track (especially out of the box), but it says more about the GTS potential. I have specced my car with RWS, Buckets, SPASM, PDK and MPSC2 N0. It is an amazing car. The only regret I have is that I should have gone with the PCCBs and swapped for big steel rotors to sort out the brake issue. The car needs better brakes and better cooling. If it would have gotten the 380 all around like the 991.1 GT3 or GT4, together with a tune it would be a missile. I'm looking at aero improvements and brakes for this seasons, but already with MPSC2 tires it is a lot faster than my GT4 was on track.

Another thing which amazed me, with RWS the car doesn't seem to need as much front camber to wear the tires evenly. I maxed out camber front and rear and I basically have no outside threadwear. Amazing.
Old 02-19-2018, 08:25 AM
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Great write-up OP. Glad to see another 991.2 non-GT3 getting used properly.

RAS - I'm 100% on board with RAS for track use. The feeling of the 991 on entry is amazing and I suspect RAS is at play.

P-Zeros - Guessing you were running 20+ minute sessions. Definitely get greasy and lose performance. The first couple of laps after warm up seem quick to me. I run in an environment where I typically do 5-8 laps, come in for 30-40 mins and then go back out. Less tire temp issues this way. Still I think I'll go to MPSC2 after I smoke the P-Zeros just to see what I've been missing. The Cup2s were awesome on the RS and lasted much longer than I expected.

Would love to hear more about the Backdraft Cobra as a track car!
Old 02-19-2018, 11:57 AM
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My track buddy runs a GT4 with MPSC2 tires and I was right on his times. He could carry more energy out of the tight turns, the 1-2 combo and 11, and I would have to rely on HP to catch him. I think a lot of that has to do with the tires. It was cold yesterday with a strong wind chill in addition to the marine layer. It felt like the PZeroes just didn’t warm up until my last session and it was then that I really felt the car connecting. Another comment was made about session time, yes I was doing 20 minute sessions after that last one I inspected the tires and they looked just like should, a little shredded, very sticky but not greasy. It made me consider that on a warmer day these tires would have been a mess. The MPSC2s are a better tire, period.

Good point about RAS and camber. I am running the factory alignment and on my drive home was considering what alignment changes would be appropriate for track and street use. This is a daily driver for me, but I don’t drive a lot of miles to begin with. What I just don’t know is how camber and PDCC + Sport PASM work together and it is longer and wider than any generation before with the car engineerer with weight nearest the roll center. There is a good body of collective experience on 991s, time to do some reading.

The Backdraft Cobra is a car that tests you while also reminding everyone else at the track about the brilliance of Carroll Shelby. The simple equation of big engine in a lightweight car with big tires overlooks why that car is so amazing on a track. Shelby placed the engine well behind the front suspension, in fact the foot boxes are so far forward (2 cylinders up on the engine) that you end up sitting a few degrees off the centerline of the car. He took advantage of something that Porsche also benefits from, a low polar moment of inertia. I can’t drive it at Laguna because of the sound restrictions but at Thunderhill, especially the 3 mile layout, car is a blast to drive because it is so at home on long straights and sweeping turns.

Originally Posted by acey81
The GTS has the potential to run with the 991.2 GT3 with some modification, and I'm not saying that to slag the GT3 off, it certainly is a superior car on track (especially out of the box), but it says more about the GTS potential. I have specced my car with RWS, Buckets, SPASM, PDK and MPSC2 N0. It is an amazing car. The only regret I have is that I should have gone with the PCCBs and swapped for big steel rotors to sort out the brake issue. The car needs better brakes and better cooling. If it would have gotten the 380 all around like the 991.1 GT3 or GT4, together with a tune it would be a missile. I'm looking at aero improvements and brakes for this seasons, but already with MPSC2 tires it is a lot faster than my GT4 was on track.

Another thing which amazed me, with RWS the car doesn't seem to need as much front camber to wear the tires evenly. I maxed out camber front and rear and I basically have no outside threadwear. Amazing.
Old 02-19-2018, 01:06 PM
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Thanks for the great write-up. I have yet to track my 991.2 C2s, but have been very very impressed by the performance and versatility of it. It must be so fun at Laguna. I was there when Moto GP returned and saw Nicky Hayden win. Great memory!
Old 02-19-2018, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jnolan


The Backdraft Cobra is a car that tests you while also reminding everyone else at the track about the brilliance of Carroll Shelby. The simple equation of big engine in a lightweight car with big tires overlooks why that car is so amazing on a track. Shelby placed the engine well behind the front suspension, in fact the foot boxes are so far forward (2 cylinders up on the engine) that you end up sitting a few degrees off the centerline of the car. He took advantage of something that Porsche also benefits from, a low polar moment of inertia. I can’t drive it at Laguna because of the sound restrictions but at Thunderhill, especially the 3 mile layout, car is a blast to drive because it is so at home on long straights and sweeping turns.



Thanks for posting. I was very interested to read this as my other car is a Factory Five Cobra with 470hp and no drivers aids and only 2400 lbs with me in it. Totally different beast. Do you have any plans to take your 911 to Thunderhill? Would love to see a comparison of lap times on a common circuit between the 2! If you don't mind post up a picture of your Backdraft or if you are on instagram message me @scottscobra. I have a Cobra content based account I highlight cars from around the world.

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