zoiks

Folks, I've been lurking for some time trying to educate myself on the various Porsche models. Huge thanks to all of the outstanding information on this site! I started out looking at a used Cayman S, and a used 997.2 C2S...if I have all of my terminology correct. I then got drawn into C4S, and most recently I've seen a few C4 GTS's. I've been a HPDE instructor for various PCA's regions but never actually owned a Porsche. I've driven them on the track and absolutely love the handling and performance characteristics. I've spent the most time in a Cayman S and very little time in the 997.2's. I plan to keep doing 4-6 HPDE events per year, and just enjoy the car only when the weather is great. I've always driven 6 speed manuals but I do love the Porsche PDK and I think I would lean slightly towards the PDK transmission...assuming it's reliable. I want to minimize yearly maintenance costs and hopefully stay away from any regular high dollar repairs. I can do most work myself but Porsche dealers are a long ways away. I'm not trying to be a pro race driver, just have some fun and help teach others. Some of my thoughts/findings are:

Cayman S - could afford a 2014/2015 model with low mileage. Certified. Loses value the fastest.
997.2 C2S - 2009 to 2012. (no 991's)
997.2 C4S - 2009 to 2012.
997.2 C4 GTS - Cost is a bit out of what I'd like to spend but I think they would retain their value better? I like the specs, worried about what I've read on center lock wheels. It does seem like the complaints died down a ton from when these CL's first came out. Should I stay away from CL's for HPDE?

For all of these I would want the sports chrono package and the PASM. I am intentionally staying away from 997.1's...

So, the question is...for reliability, low maintenance cost for HPDE, is there are standout in this group or am I safe with any of these choices? I do love the Cayman S, but the 997.2 is just a better looking car in my opinion. So, I would lean towards the 997.2. Are there any concerns with manual versus PDK for HPDE? Should I be worried about AWD versus 2WD? Should I stay away from CL wheels on a GTS? Do folks actually seek out the CL wheels on a GTS? Any other advice as I look at some of these in the next few weeks?

Thanks again for all of the help!

sandwedge

On the GTS, just curious why you limit yourself to the 4WD version. The GTS was a low production number car to begin with and there were fewer 4WD made than 2WD. So if you include the 2WD version of the GTS you not only give yourself more cars to choose from but I believe the 2WD GTS is more sought after. Why? Because it's the only widebody 997 with 2WD except for the GT3RS so a hard to find package. The 4 GTS is basically a mass produced C4S with the X51 power kit and for the most part with CL wheels. Subjective issue but I never really understood all the negative comments about the CL wheels. Yes you need to buy a $1,200 wrench and some grease to remove and install them yourself but unless you spend a lot of time at the track, how often do you have to take your wheels off? If you get a flat, there's no spare anyway so it's flatbed whether you like it or not.

3Series

FYI, the breaker bar and torque wrench from Precision tools is $410. Everything you need to remove and replace CL wheels can be bought for less than $500. It's still a good amount of money for wheel tools, but a lot lower than $1200.

There's a learning curve for Center Locks but as the guy stated above its not that big of deal. However, if you don't take your wheels off often, that learning curve is very long. If you take them off a lot to bleed/flush brake fluid because of tracking, 400+lbs to remove the center lock becomes tedious even after using the beefiest and longest breaker bars. An impact wrench and 5 lugs's is very simple and fast.

zoiks

Thanks for the additional information. Good point, I will add the 997.2 C2 GTS to the list. I've actually not seen one for sale but since you mentioned it, I looked and just saw 2 for sale. I have thoroughly researched the center lock wheels on multiple websites and watched several youtube videos on how to change wheels with CL's. It looks pretty straight forward to me and I did see in another Rennlist post where folks directed me to the the torque wrench and breaker bar combo. I was figuring if I bought a GTS I would effectually have to add the tool cost in for the CL wheels. Given I plan to do 4-6 HPDE events per year I know those wheels would be coming on and off several times a year. I've always run separate pads for the track versus the street so the pads get swapped for that alone. I actually helped a friend change his CL wheels on a 2017 911 Turbo S in the fall and thought they were interesting. I never thought I'd be looking at the cars with them also. Thanks for the advice, keep it coming!

fyn

I made this decision last May for many of the same reasons you list, and I ended up with a 997.2 C2S 6-speed. The Cayman S is a fantastic car, and the real difference on a track between it and a 997 is going to be weight transfer and turn in. A Cayman will feel like it will rotate at-will mid corner. Great performance, if a little intimidating for a beginner. At turn-in a 997 is going to retain the 911's iconic understeer/oversteer behavior. Yes, it's not at all like it was in earlier models, but it will be there. In a 997 you'll also have to think more about weight transfer, as the effect of front/back transfers will be more prominent than in a Cayman thanks for the engine hanging out over the rear axle. This isn't a bad thing, especially if you'll be instructing. Helping people understand how to manipulate the weight transfer of a 911 and master the unique and quirky characteristics of the car would probably be really rewarding (to me, at least).

C2S v. C4S? You'll gain some drivability in snow if you go with the 4S (and tires), but you'll lose some of the C2S's characteristics at the limit. The car will understeer a little more at turn in, and be harder to induce oversteer, but not necessarily faster once you learn how to drive the C2S.

Happy to discuss more and give more accounts from friends who track their (respective) Caymans and 911's. Shoot me a PM.