friar93

I have my c4S on the road all winter. I drive it occasionally.....like 1 day a week to work and on the weekends. I might put 500 miles between now and March. I wont drive it in the snow - although there's some risk I could get caught in a slight flurry- I would avoid snow or icy days and probably drive only on the sunny/dry days.

so......do I really need winter tires? I have the P-Zero that are factory on the car now. Are they that bad in the winter? im not doing any performance driving in the winter although I would be getting up to speed on the highway, etc.

Its not cost as much as it is time I dont have to get tires swapped, space to store them, etc....

Dennis C

They are that bad in the winter.

If you hardly drive the car in winter conditions, then it’s difficult to justify a switch to winter tires. I understand your dilemma.

If there’s a chance that you could get caught in snow, then you’ll regret leaving P Zeros on the car. I’ve been caught in an early season snow storm before, and it was terrible.

spiderv6

The P-Zeros, according to Pirelli, are not designed to operate in winter conditions. They specifically list the operating temperatures if you look. I guarantee you that Boston in the winter is below that.

Once you have "a moment" on performance summer tires in the winter, you understand what it means that "they don't work". I remember my first experience of that.

It's cheap and easy to swap into winters. Its not so easy and not so cheap to bend the dents out of your car from a small slide............

PJ Cayenne

I'm in the same boat with the PZeros, but will only use the 911 on decent weather days...I have another car for train station duty. Plus, I don't enjoy using the 911 on roads with lots of sand and rock salt. Very occasional, light winter use, dry roads only, with temps in the 20s at the lowest. Do I really need snows?

.2PDK

Bottom line is this, if you get unlucky and encounter snow covered roads you're screwed...

stealthboy

Winter tires aren't just for snow/ice. It's more about the hardness of the rubber in lower temperatures. Just swapped my wheels/tires last weekend.

spiderv6

^ This

My wife's X5 came delivered with P-Zeros in the summer (I still don't know why!) and I also just swapped her on to winter tires as well. Just not worth the risk.

AnandN

Yes. For both low temperatures and the occasional snow and ice. You can check Pirelli's website.
I have 19-inch wheels with winter Contis on my C4S. I plan to drive more than you do but mostly when the roads are dry. Still, snows are the way to go. The dealer will store your summer wheels and tires for you and swap them in the spring. I am in NH and notice you are MA. Same weather. Why risk your expensive car and your summer tires.

drcollie

P-Zeros are hard as a rock and slick as snot in cold temps. You hit snow - no control.

Winter drive is OK if roads are clear - leave it in the garage if there is ANYTHING approaching ice or snow on the road, or else be prepared to have your car spend some time at the body shop.

subshooter

I will give you a different perspective. I don't think winter tires are "necessary" if you are not driving in snow but there are several caveats. You cannot push the car at all. From personal experience, my P-Zeros slide all over the place <45 degrees in dry pavement (if I push the car even moderately) in my 991.2. In my Boxster, I have experienced severe "tire hop" in cold temperatures while accelerating briskly. But if you are driving it like a Honda Accord, you will not have a problem in dry pavement in cold temperature....unless you have an unexpected event where you need to rely on the handling of the car to avoid an accident (defensive driving due to some other guy)

A couple days ago, I took my 911 out (C4) in 3 inches of snow with summer tires. Very low speed to just do some comparisons. Here is what I wrote in another forum: "I was not surprised about the lack of stopping potential with summer tires in the cold snow. A lot of anti-lock brakes kicking in with just a moderate amount of braking. But I anticipated this and started slowing well before any stop sign. I was surprised at the acceleration with the car. It was much better than expected. AWD is nice in the snow. PSM was very effective too but I still enjoyed steering with the throttle. I didn't get above 22 mph in my neighborhood. I wouldn't take this car out on the highway without winter tires for sure but it was still much better than my Lexus".

I can't comment on the damage (if any) to the summer tires while running them in the cold. I don't really care.

I think you need to do some of your own testing to satisfy yourself. We all have different comfort zones.

technivoro.us

I live outside of Boston and swap my summer wheels for winters as soon as temps get into the 40's. As others have said, the P-Zeros don't perform well at all in the cold, never mind frozen precipitation. I've found stopping distance to be pretty severely compromised as temps dip, and have a close call or two in the shoulder seasons on cold mornings.

If you're really, really serious about not swapping wheels, I'd recommend Conti ExtremeContact DWS all-seasons. They won't perform at the same level as a proper summer tire, or a proper winter tire, but I've found them to be workable. They also seem to last forever. I ran these on my old 996TT for two seasons, and on my Dinan X5 for two seasons.

R_Rated

hell.... they are that bad in summer...

wareaglescott

What is the general wisdom on temperature alone when it is below that you would not want to drive on summer tires in dry condition?
I live in the south. We get some occasional cold snaps. I would never consider the need for winter tires but certainly would like to know what temps it would be prudent to leave the car in the garage.

chuck911

Here in Western Washington we sometimes get freezing temps and occasionally even snow, but mostly just cold rain. The passes however are only an hour away and compact snow and ice most of the winter. It is if anything even colder in Eastern Washington, where I attended WSU and so for 4 years drove Snoqualmie Pass half a dozen times in winter, plus having the car in Pullman all season which was always at least three months solid compact snow and ice with occasional vast stretches of black ice.

Now I really have no idea what anyone else needs. All I can say is in all those years plus another 30 up until maybe about a dozen years ago I never ran anything but the stickiest most high performance summer tire I could find. Never ran chains. Carried them. One time put them on just to get going. Stopped after less than 100 feet and removed them. One time drove right past a WSP officer on the pass when chains were required. Also drove up to Schweitzer to go skiing one time when chains were required and I would have made it to the top if the idiots who don't know how to drive hadn't slowed me down a little too much at one point a couple hundred yards from the lot.

Of course winter tires are not required. How could they be? What? Are summer tires gonna freeze solid and break into little pieces? I don't think so. What I think, and opinions may differ, but what I think is that just as in summer if you run less than the most high performance tire you will have less traction than the guy who does, and that just as when it rains you will have less traction with no tread compared to full tread, that in winter you will have less traction with anything less than the best winter tire than if you had mounted the best winter tire. Could be wrong. Pretty sure I am right.

What I did was I learned how to drive in those low-traction conditions. Got to where going down a straight road I could put the car in a spin, do a 360, and continue on in a straight line. Got so good at it, got so confident, I even did it one time not on a deserted road but one with cars parked both sides. Yeah, go ahead, have a cow. But when I did this I was GOOD AT IT!

Again, that was with high performance summer tires. Stahlflex 3011's if I got the number right. Great big tread blocks. No sipes. Being a poor college student, not a lot of tread most of the time either.

When I finally did start running winter tires it was NOT for traction but to save my nice summer wheels.

Your mileage (and spins) my vary. That's my take on it: its not the tires. Its the driver.

AnandN

Pirelli recommends not to use the summer tires below 45oF. Other manufacturers have similar recommendations. I live in the frigid north and have always switched overs to snows in early November for my sports cars and by Thanksgiving for my SUVs.