jreifler

Dear clever Rennlisters, riddle me this shi*t if you will:

Recently purchased my first 911. A 1984 triple black 3.2 Coupe; precisely the one in the poster on my wall in that year. Advertised and borne out to be a very clean, well-maintained, higher mileage driver. Bought in Florida, and driven 1,600 miles home without incident.

Now that she is home, and after a fan-belt overheating scare, I'm refreshing the entire car. Prior owner didn't have much history on the car outside of his ownership, but as we dig, I'm finding some odd stuff.

With the caveat that I didn't really do my normal level of diligence on this car (i.e., didn't even order a Carfax), here are the head scratchers:

1) Now that I do have the Carfax, the records aren't adding up. First entry is from '91, which shows the car as having 103,000 miles. By 2000, there was a new owner, and an emissions reading at 160,000 miles. Which is odd, because I bought the car with 116,000 miles on the odometer.

2) So, the car sold again in 2009, presumably to my PO, but the odometer wasn't noted. The next time it was noted, it read 78,046 miles. So, clearly, the 2009 purchase occurred in conjunction with an inter-dimensional quantum physics mishap which reversed the flow of time. No big deal.

3) My mechanic swears on his reproductive organs that this car was originally white. He points to undercarriage, engine bay, transmission well, underhood nicks, and other evidence that the car was white. But the paint code under the front hood indicates otherwise. L700. However, I can tell that the sticker is new, and was positioned ever-so-slightly askew of its original location. The PO said he was "aware" of a recent windows-out high end respray, but black to black; not white to black.

4) My mechanic is right. And that sticker on the hood is bullish*t. According to Carfax, the car was white in '07, but black in '09. Hmmmm. Oh, and the headliner was white too. Or at least a very disgusting 33 year old "white." It's beautifully painted black now.

5) The PO rebuilt the top end, added ARP studs, refurbished the fuel system, and did some other nice maintenance, but he claimed to never have cracked the case. My mechanic did though, and there was a piston 1 failure at some point. Substantial pieces of metal were resting at the bottom of the case. An entire wrist pin, even. The crankshaft has a small scar in the same location, too.

6) So, obviously, that case *had* been opened, and the 2011 receipt under the passenger's seat for a single piston tends to discredit the PO. But whatever; I'm not concerned with that now. My mechanic has now rebuilt the entire engine, added custom headwork, Fabspeed race exhaust, and a silly dose of OCD. It's gorgeous now. The case and crankshaft are perfect, and I'm happy. But still confused.

7) The VINs on the car aren't adding up. Every VIN that can be removed / reproduced is consistently: WP0AB091XES120572. However, the code stamped in the metal above the fuel cell reads WP0ZZZ91ZES120572.

Before you yell at me, yes, I have run these through every decoder I can find. I get that the ZZZ indicates "Rest of World" and AB0 is US. What I can't make sense of is the "Check Digit." Why is one Z and the other X? This is supposed to be the sum of the other numerical values in the VIN, which are otherwise identical between the two. X supposedly indicates a value in excess of 10. Fine. Why is the immutable one Z?

I gather that maybe during the production stage in which fuel cell is being built onto the chassis, they haven't yet determined the destination country. That could explain ZZZ. Maybe not. I have no idea.

So, tell me what you think. Does my car actually have about 280,000 miles on it, or has it traveled back in time? Is it suffering from a reverse Michael Jackson pigment thing? Was the PO overtly lying, or just lying by omission? What's with the schizo VINs?

jreifler

GTgears

Your assumption is correct. Thats the chassis number assigned prior to a vin for a particular country/destination being generated. I wouldn't worry about it. It doesn't suggest theft or a car that was clipped.

The rest appears 2-3 owners deep. Whether the guy who sold it to you knew all that or not is a ? But is doesn't sound like he did it. Its an old car. Mileage means nothing. Odometers get changed all the time. Engine is rebuilt. Car was white. I think you did your homework after purchase and got it right.


If original color is important always get a coa for the car. They can take a few weeks. A car can sell in that time. Good sellers/owners have one in their listing. Carfax is useless. Assess each car on its own condition if you aren't handed a stack of records to review.

jreifler

Thanks for the insight and input. Color doesn't bother me and wasn't important to me on purchase; just an intriguing process of learning the history. The odometer thing is more interesting.

And I tend to agree that the PO may not have known about the status of the case. Even if he did replace the piston, he wouldn't have had to break the case to do it. I didn't know how much stock to put into the Carfax. I've certainly bought other cars in the past where it was completely wrong.

For more context, this was an eBay sale, and every car sale is "AS IS" anyway. I bought it after asking the PO a lot of questions. He was an enthusiast, a multiple P-car owner, and a good guy to boot. So I'm inclined to believe he knew what he knew and nothing more.

All in all, I'm still super happy with the purchase. Just intrigued by the background.

GTgears

If you like the car that's all that matters at the end of the day.

Part of why there are so many TMU old 911s is the 85 mph speedo. I forget what years it was used. But it was really common to replace it with a Euro one. Sometimes people would document the change. More often they just added it, frequently from a used car that was wrecked. 15 years ago, when these cars were 15-20 years old already, I sold new replacement speedos all the time. You can't look at it like a newer car. Nobody used to care and generally didn't even do it to be nefarious. Older odometers only have 5 digits. Is my 914 58k mi, 158k mi or 258k mi.

And they break all the time. It could have been replaced to make it work again after who knows how long broken.

r911

A 1984 triple black 3.2 Coupe

but the engine case looks to be Mg, or is that the lighting?

I don't see a sump plate

jreifler

I'm far from technically savvy, and aside from my Cayman, this is my first in what will hopefully be a long line of P cars. So, most of my suppositions aren't well-informed. My mechanic has been nice enough to explain what he can to me, and I'm learning, but @r911, please expound and talk to me like the dummy I am.

Are you saying the case looks to be magnesium rather than aluminum? It is aluminum. It was just bead blasted and cleaned. Where would the sump plate you reference normally be located?

@GTgears - I adore this car. It is amazing, and when I'm done with the rebuild and interior customization, it will be my dream car 80s 911. Not upset about any of this. Just very interested in the history.

jreifler

Here's the beginning of the interior work:

Amber Gramps

Love it.

Pep!RRRR

Interesting thread. No sump plate on a 3.2 liter. Sump plates found on 3.0 l SCs through '83.

theiceman

" solve my 911 mysteries"

K.M.A.

This is not reddit. Sounds like some kind of order.

jreifler

Sorry you're not a fan of the title, and/or have some sort of chip on your shoulder about being made to do things you'd rather not do. Kindly do something else with your time.

Cheers.

r911

no sump plate on a 3.2L

get the engine # and see how it aligns with the VIN

check for secret #'s (in secret places, at least on early cars - maybe yours)

jreifler

Will do. Thank you.

r911

also if you got any service receipts from the PO, put them into an Excel spreadsheet with columns for mileage, date of work, cost, what was done, etc.

then look up immediate safety needs *brake hoses & fluids; and that one fuel line on the 3.2L's that often leaks and burns the cars to the ground...)

see if all that work was done...