Manual or PDK opinion
#76
I understand the fun associated with the MT but from a performance perspective ALL the other supercars have a trans similar to the PDK. Why do you guys think the rest of the competitive players dropped the MT. Is there a HP limit on MT's and have money shifts scared mfg and drivers.
#77
Drifting
I understand the fun associated with the MT but from a performance perspective ALL the other supercars have a trans similar to the PDK. Why do you guys think the rest of the competitive players dropped the MT. Is there a HP limit on MT's and have money shifts scared mfg and drivers.
Definitely helps those latte lovers..
#78
Instructor
[QUOTE=white6speed;14449485] [...] ALL the other supercars have a trans similar to the PDK. [...] QUOTE]
Correct. Except for the Corvette Z06, I am not aware of a similarly positioned car that still has an MT. I would even bet that the new GT3RS will be PDK only. So, this GT3 might be the last high performance car ever which is offered with MT. Don't get me wrong - I am also back and forth between PDK and MT, but with a consistent slight preference for the MT.
Best
Tobias
Correct. Except for the Corvette Z06, I am not aware of a similarly positioned car that still has an MT. I would even bet that the new GT3RS will be PDK only. So, this GT3 might be the last high performance car ever which is offered with MT. Don't get me wrong - I am also back and forth between PDK and MT, but with a consistent slight preference for the MT.
Best
Tobias
#79
I understand the fun associated with the MT but from a performance perspective ALL the other supercars have a trans similar to the PDK. Why do you guys think the rest of the competitive players dropped the MT. Is there a HP limit on MT's and have money shifts scared mfg and drivers.
This article claims:
1) Newer buyers want auto shift boxes because they know they are much faster and they don't know how to drive a manual (my interpretation)
2) Auto shifters have lower emissions and get better mileage.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2016-06-17/why-can-t-you-get-your-300-000-supercar-with-a-stick-shift
#80
Drifting
I sadly never thought about this when placing my manual order. A very valid observation. It's too late to change my order, already locked. oh wait, my RS is PDK! Oh wait, those damn buckets would not help. So it would seem if this is your goal by ordering the GT3, then PDK and sofas are ideal.
#81
To the original question posed:
1. Daily driver in city traffic - PDK
2. Getting paid to turn the quickest lap time - PDK
3. Driver involvement at track - Manual
4. Weekend sports car experience - Manual
5. Respect - Manual
6. Future collectibility - Manual
Just remember, when the BMW SMG, Ferrari F1, Lambo E-gear, and Porsche Tiptronic were all released, everyone HAD to have them. Now, both resale value and desirability is better on a 6-speed manual car versus modified automatic in every single case. (And yes, automatic gearbox technology will continue to improve over the current gen PDK).
Many of my friends prefer PDK, and that's totally fine. To each their own, and it's their money. On a track, PDK really is awesome to drive, and you WILL cut a better time in a PDK car, without question. However, there isn't even an argument that can be made for driver involvement, required multi-tasking skill (and the subsequent reward), and future resale value for a manual transmission-equipped car.
1. Daily driver in city traffic - PDK
2. Getting paid to turn the quickest lap time - PDK
3. Driver involvement at track - Manual
4. Weekend sports car experience - Manual
5. Respect - Manual
6. Future collectibility - Manual
Just remember, when the BMW SMG, Ferrari F1, Lambo E-gear, and Porsche Tiptronic were all released, everyone HAD to have them. Now, both resale value and desirability is better on a 6-speed manual car versus modified automatic in every single case. (And yes, automatic gearbox technology will continue to improve over the current gen PDK).
Many of my friends prefer PDK, and that's totally fine. To each their own, and it's their money. On a track, PDK really is awesome to drive, and you WILL cut a better time in a PDK car, without question. However, there isn't even an argument that can be made for driver involvement, required multi-tasking skill (and the subsequent reward), and future resale value for a manual transmission-equipped car.
BMW M5: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...20144&zc=75034
F430: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...28881&zc=75034
Gallardo: https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...29632&zc=75034
As you can see, there is no difference in pricing between auto and manual, and I would go one step further to say the autos have a slight advantage.
It would be naive to think this is the last GT car Porsche will make with a manual, too. At the end of the day, get what makes you happier, not for resale.
I would also not buy a certain tranny to gain 'respect'? Respect from whom and why do you care?
#83
Manual or PDK?
Using the car I have ordered for both track - once a month - and couple days a week as driver.
Comparing PDK to manual, which I haven't driven...obvious pros and cons and I don't mind the manual in traffic.......
Not that you buy this car for this, but will depreciation over the years be less with manual......or does it depend on future offerings with GT3? Most people I speak to, say in reality after the hype of the new car, the rate will be the same....
Also, will 997 GT3 regular model that has held or appreciates now start to depreciate now that manual is available in 991.2...?
Comparing PDK to manual, which I haven't driven...obvious pros and cons and I don't mind the manual in traffic.......
Not that you buy this car for this, but will depreciation over the years be less with manual......or does it depend on future offerings with GT3? Most people I speak to, say in reality after the hype of the new car, the rate will be the same....
Also, will 997 GT3 regular model that has held or appreciates now start to depreciate now that manual is available in 991.2...?
#84
No one seems to talk much about the PDK's capabilities to in effect shift like a MT with a level of safety the MT may not have. Does the newness of the MT drive interest as there are lots of GT3s 14, 15, 16 including the RS that seem to get high marks as a great drivers car.
#85
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
As much as the PDK can try to emulate a manual (by flicking an electronic toggle switch without a clutch), don't forget that the Manual offers significant advantages of PDK with the Auto Rev-Match function (which can be turned on or off).
#86
"Modern" car engines are not only getting ever more powerful they are developing ever broader torque curves.
This combination is less forgiving on conventional manual gearboxes particularly if used in a performance context.
This does not make PDK better than manual, it just makes it more sensible for those that track their cars regularly (and sit in traffic regularly).
PDK is about longevity and reliability in this situation. Yes you can cut marginally quicker laps as well - however, fluff the line through just one corner and it will be back to being neck and neck with the manual.
Bottom line is as its always been, choose whats best for you, your particular needs and driving style.
This combination is less forgiving on conventional manual gearboxes particularly if used in a performance context.
This does not make PDK better than manual, it just makes it more sensible for those that track their cars regularly (and sit in traffic regularly).
PDK is about longevity and reliability in this situation. Yes you can cut marginally quicker laps as well - however, fluff the line through just one corner and it will be back to being neck and neck with the manual.
Bottom line is as its always been, choose whats best for you, your particular needs and driving style.
#87
Please don't flame me...but I am pretty sure I remember reading that the the manual 7 speed transmission would lock out a gear you are trying to shift into if it would overrev the engine. For example downshifting from 4th to first instead of 4th to 3rd by error. I don't remember if it was the porsche seven speed manual or the corvette's 7 speed manual but I pretty positive I read that. So does anybody know if the 6 speed manual in the upcoming gt3.2 would have such a feature that would negate the fear of money shifthing?
#88
Nordschleife Master
Grant, I looked at your referenced comparison and noticed that this one time you may have made an error.
The Hockenheim lap list shows...
The 991 GT3 (pdk) is #12th fastest time at 1:07.90
vs
The 991 R (manual) is #35th at 1.09.10
The PDK GT3 faster at this track. Of course, as you point out it's not apples to apples, and who knows what tires they are running?
I say PDK is substantially faster and you say only slightly faster.
But, we both agree PDK is faster.
I am willing to concede that it depends on the circuit.
The Hockenheim lap list shows...
The 991 GT3 (pdk) is #12th fastest time at 1:07.90
vs
The 991 R (manual) is #35th at 1.09.10
The PDK GT3 faster at this track. Of course, as you point out it's not apples to apples, and who knows what tires they are running?
I say PDK is substantially faster and you say only slightly faster.
But, we both agree PDK is faster.
I am willing to concede that it depends on the circuit.
Matt, matt, matt. You're a good guy, but you are so absolutely, unequivocally wrong here. I don't think you are understanding how enormous of a difference 3 seconds is. It's an absolute massacre.
The difference between the 2 transmissions is marginal. I get sadistic joy out of proving people wrong, which is why I'm going with a manual GT3. I'm going to set times at all the norcal tracks, and we're going to see how many PDK drivers can meet or beat it. Prediction: even if the driver is known to be faster than me, it will be less than a second.
In the meantime, let's play a game. Here is a graph of speed data from a track in norcal 3 years ago. Same exact car (boxster spyder). Same tires. Same day, so identical conditions. One is a manual and one is a PDK. The section shown covers 1.6 miles and 1 minute 6 seconds. The time differential between the 2 cars in the graph shown is 0.1 seconds. Can you tell me which color is PDK and which one is manual? It should be easy to spot if the difference is as big as you say.
If you need a little help with reference, this is what a 3 second difference looks like on an entire track. I'll bet you can pick the faster car out easily on this one. Can you tell me what the difference is between these 2 cars?
Last edited by orthojoe; 09-04-2017 at 11:51 AM.
#89
Orthojoe the driving is different is the top pane e.g look at the blue trace in the vicinity of the 2nd red triangle - clearly off the gas relative to the red trace.
The answer is close to .5 seconds over a minute to minute thirty. The whole point of PDK is performance consistency and performance longevity/reliability. Two hands on the wheel at all times on track is also a benefit.
The answer is close to .5 seconds over a minute to minute thirty. The whole point of PDK is performance consistency and performance longevity/reliability. Two hands on the wheel at all times on track is also a benefit.
#90
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by randr
Orthojoe the driving is different is the top pane e.g look at the blue trace in the vicinity of the 2nd red triangle - clearly off the gas relative to the red trace.
The answer is close to .5 seconds over a minute to minute thirty. The whole point of PDK is performance consistency and performance longevity/reliability. Two hands on the wheel at all times on track is also a benefit.
The answer is close to .5 seconds over a minute to minute thirty. The whole point of PDK is performance consistency and performance longevity/reliability. Two hands on the wheel at all times on track is also a benefit.
So which is pdk? Blue or red? You have 2 other long straights to eval where one guy didn't have to lift for traffic .
0.5 seconds over 1-1:30 is too generous.